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Brake System Help
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hammeredvw
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:24 pm    Post subject: Brake System Help Reply with quote

So, over the last three weeks, I have replaced all the shoes, hardware, rubber lines, master cylinder, and the master cylinder hoses.

All the shoes have been adjusted out properly, bench bled the master, adjusted the push rod and I have gone through 6 quarts of brake fluid. I cannot get any type of brake pedal.

I've already put a second master in thinking the first one was bad. I cannot seem to figure out what the problem is. I've tried starting in the front to bleed... starting in the rear.... used a vacuum pump... nothing seems to work.

It's a dual circuit master cylinder. and all wheel cylinders and master are german parts.

If anyone has any ideas, please let me know.. I am at my wits end with this thing.
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67rustavenger Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake System Help Reply with quote

First and foremost. Take a deep breath. How did the 6 qts. of brake fluid get out of the system? Did you pump it out through the brake slave cylinders? Regarding the brake pedal rod. It needs to have 1mm of clearance between the end of the rod and piston for the MC. If no clearance then the rear circuit is not going to function properly. At the top of the pedal you should have 5-7mm free play before MC piston contact. Adjust the brake shoes tight against the drums and re-bleed the slave cylinders. Once you have brake system pressure. Adjust the brakes back to normal spec. Slight drag and then back off 3 clicks.
Good Luck.
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hammeredvw
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake System Help Reply with quote

Yes, the brakes were bled continuously for hours, to put the 6 quarts through the system.

The pushrod was adjusted to get 5-7 mm of clearance at the top of the pedal..
I don't know if I should just keep bleeding and hope for the best.. All the wheels are pumping good streams of fluid from the wheel cylinders. All brakes are tight against the drum. I just can't figure out what the deal is.
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zoobyshoe
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake System Help Reply with quote

hammeredvw wrote:
Yes, the brakes were bled continuously for hours, to put the 6 quarts through the system...

...All the wheels are pumping good streams of fluid from the wheel cylinders.


You are pumping the fluid with the brake pedal?
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hammeredvw
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake System Help Reply with quote

Yes I had somebody pumping the brakes and hold it, while I cracked the bleeder.. Normal brake bleeding procedure..

I've gone though six quarts and still no pedal. I've never had this happen before.
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Bob Brugge
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake System Help Reply with quote

I am willing to bet you have something loose enough to suck air in.
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gt1953
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake System Help Reply with quote

I would have stopped after 2 quarts.
So with all of the bleeders closed off, from what you are saying you still pump out fluid. Hole in the line or something loose somewhere.
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zoobyshoe
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:02 am    Post subject: Re: Brake System Help Reply with quote

Only thing I can think of is kind of a stretch: that one of the cups inside the master cylinders is in backwards. I understand you to have bought both recently. If you got them from the same place, then they could have both been from a bad batch assembled by young Hans Rickendicker on his first day on the job, when he was inexperienced, and very probably hungover, or maybe on his last day, when he just no longer gave a crap.

Anyway, you can take the innards out of the one that's not installed just now and compare how everything is assembled to a diagram of how it's supposed to go together.

If you were pumping the fluid out, it would have to end up on the ground and you'd see it. It really has to be sloshing back and forth inside the master cylinder. It's just hard to conceive of that happening in two separate new master cylinders, is all.
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Joey
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:27 am    Post subject: Re: Brake System Help Reply with quote

If your master cylinder has that 10mm bolt on top try cracking that open while someone pushing down on the pedal. I know it's not for bleeding but sometimes I find it's the only way to get any pedal.
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zoobyshoe
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:25 am    Post subject: Re: Brake System Help Reply with quote

Joey wrote:
If your master cylinder has that 10mm bolt on top try cracking that open while someone pushing down on the pedal. I know it's not for bleeding but sometimes I find it's the only way to get any pedal.

This sounds like a good idea. I can imagine a bubble trapped in the piston area that never gets sent down the line. Pushing on the pedal and cracking that bolt would let it out.
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DeathTrap
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: Brake System Help Reply with quote

Adjust the brake shoes
repeat as needed
repeat often

adjust each shoe till it completely locks rotation
then back off 3 clicks
oh, it still barely turns GOOD
do the second shoe same way
Now it seems impossible to turn the wheel at all PERRFECT

Do all 4 wheels
8 shoes

Pump the pedal a few times and do them all over again

now you should have pedal pressure
take it around the block

put it back up on jack stands and do all of them again
big drag, barely turns
Now this time around the block you have brakes

if you are soooo concerned about the amount of drag, jack it up and check. Gee all good to go

adjust again first month
adjust again after the pedal takes too far to stop

Don't tell me they are adjusted
they are not until they are adjusted and adjusted again as many miserable times as it takes. And as often as required. They do not adjust themselves.
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:58 am    Post subject: Re: Brake System Help Reply with quote

gt1953 wrote:
I would have stopped after 2 quarts.


I would've stopped after 1 quart. As Yogi said "there's got to be a reason !!!".

I would like to know if brake fluid actually PUMPS out of ALL FOUR bleeders (one at a time) when the pedal is pumped, and if such fluid delivery looks the same for all four.
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