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hammeredvw Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2006 Posts: 3
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:24 pm Post subject: Brake System Help |
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So, over the last three weeks, I have replaced all the shoes, hardware, rubber lines, master cylinder, and the master cylinder hoses.
All the shoes have been adjusted out properly, bench bled the master, adjusted the push rod and I have gone through 6 quarts of brake fluid. I cannot get any type of brake pedal.
I've already put a second master in thinking the first one was bad. I cannot seem to figure out what the problem is. I've tried starting in the front to bleed... starting in the rear.... used a vacuum pump... nothing seems to work.
It's a dual circuit master cylinder. and all wheel cylinders and master are german parts.
If anyone has any ideas, please let me know.. I am at my wits end with this thing. |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9663 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Brake System Help |
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First and foremost. Take a deep breath. How did the 6 qts. of brake fluid get out of the system? Did you pump it out through the brake slave cylinders? Regarding the brake pedal rod. It needs to have 1mm of clearance between the end of the rod and piston for the MC. If no clearance then the rear circuit is not going to function properly. At the top of the pedal you should have 5-7mm free play before MC piston contact. Adjust the brake shoes tight against the drums and re-bleed the slave cylinders. Once you have brake system pressure. Adjust the brakes back to normal spec. Slight drag and then back off 3 clicks.
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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hammeredvw Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2006 Posts: 3
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: Brake System Help |
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Yes, the brakes were bled continuously for hours, to put the 6 quarts through the system.
The pushrod was adjusted to get 5-7 mm of clearance at the top of the pedal..
I don't know if I should just keep bleeding and hope for the best.. All the wheels are pumping good streams of fluid from the wheel cylinders. All brakes are tight against the drum. I just can't figure out what the deal is. |
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zoobyshoe Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2014 Posts: 461 Location: San Diego, Ca.
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Brake System Help |
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hammeredvw wrote: |
Yes, the brakes were bled continuously for hours, to put the 6 quarts through the system...
...All the wheels are pumping good streams of fluid from the wheel cylinders. |
You are pumping the fluid with the brake pedal? |
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hammeredvw Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2006 Posts: 3
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Brake System Help |
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Yes I had somebody pumping the brakes and hold it, while I cracked the bleeder.. Normal brake bleeding procedure..
I've gone though six quarts and still no pedal. I've never had this happen before. |
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Bob Brugge Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2015 Posts: 721 Location: Missoula, MT
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Brake System Help |
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I am willing to bet you have something loose enough to suck air in. _________________ Keep on Dubbin'! |
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gt1953 Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002 Posts: 13842 Location: White Mountains Arizona
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Brake System Help |
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I would have stopped after 2 quarts.
So with all of the bleeders closed off, from what you are saying you still pump out fluid. Hole in the line or something loose somewhere. _________________ Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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zoobyshoe Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2014 Posts: 461 Location: San Diego, Ca.
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:02 am Post subject: Re: Brake System Help |
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Only thing I can think of is kind of a stretch: that one of the cups inside the master cylinders is in backwards. I understand you to have bought both recently. If you got them from the same place, then they could have both been from a bad batch assembled by young Hans Rickendicker on his first day on the job, when he was inexperienced, and very probably hungover, or maybe on his last day, when he just no longer gave a crap.
Anyway, you can take the innards out of the one that's not installed just now and compare how everything is assembled to a diagram of how it's supposed to go together.
If you were pumping the fluid out, it would have to end up on the ground and you'd see it. It really has to be sloshing back and forth inside the master cylinder. It's just hard to conceive of that happening in two separate new master cylinders, is all. |
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Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5364 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:27 am Post subject: Re: Brake System Help |
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If your master cylinder has that 10mm bolt on top try cracking that open while someone pushing down on the pedal. I know it's not for bleeding but sometimes I find it's the only way to get any pedal. _________________ Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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zoobyshoe Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2014 Posts: 461 Location: San Diego, Ca.
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:25 am Post subject: Re: Brake System Help |
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Joey wrote: |
If your master cylinder has that 10mm bolt on top try cracking that open while someone pushing down on the pedal. I know it's not for bleeding but sometimes I find it's the only way to get any pedal. |
This sounds like a good idea. I can imagine a bubble trapped in the piston area that never gets sent down the line. Pushing on the pedal and cracking that bolt would let it out. |
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DeathTrap Samba Member
Joined: February 26, 2004 Posts: 1757 Location: Sacramento/Vermont
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Brake System Help |
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Adjust the brake shoes
repeat as needed
repeat often
adjust each shoe till it completely locks rotation
then back off 3 clicks
oh, it still barely turns GOOD
do the second shoe same way
Now it seems impossible to turn the wheel at all PERRFECT
Do all 4 wheels
8 shoes
Pump the pedal a few times and do them all over again
now you should have pedal pressure
take it around the block
put it back up on jack stands and do all of them again
big drag, barely turns
Now this time around the block you have brakes
if you are soooo concerned about the amount of drag, jack it up and check. Gee all good to go
adjust again first month
adjust again after the pedal takes too far to stop
Don't tell me they are adjusted
they are not until they are adjusted and adjusted again as many miserable times as it takes. And as often as required. They do not adjust themselves. |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31268 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Brake System Help |
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gt1953 wrote: |
I would have stopped after 2 quarts. |
I would've stopped after 1 quart. As Yogi said "there's got to be a reason !!!".
I would like to know if brake fluid actually PUMPS out of ALL FOUR bleeders (one at a time) when the pedal is pumped, and if such fluid delivery looks the same for all four. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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