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How to make brake light flash when turning?
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VDUB2359
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:25 am    Post subject: How to make brake light flash when turning? Reply with quote

To improve my visuals on my tail lights when turning I am trying to have my brake light flash when I turn on my turn signal. Right now I have the standard two bulb system where one bulb is my 1156 single filament turn flasher bulb and the other bulb is my 1157 dual filament with brake and tail/park light. How can I get my brake light bulb to flash with the turn light bulb? I am using the steering column turn signal switch from my 1964 VW. Does anyone know if this column had the brake override switch in it to allow the brake light to flash instead of staying steady on when the turn signal is implemented? Does anyone have the wiring diagram for this turn signal switch on the column?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: How to make brake light flash when turning? Reply with quote

Embarassed Embarassed That would be confusing and stupid.

from behind it would look like you were pumping your brakes and I would try to pass- then you would totally unexpectedly turn-crash-

but its your car and your insurance-
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: How to make brake light flash when turning? Reply with quote

I'm assuming you have 62-67 style tail lights? Is this 6V or 12V?

Yea... you could just make it so both the turn and brake lights always work together, but your stock turn signal switch won't handle the logic of that - the fronts turn lights need to work as normal. And to me, it would just look odd as well. But it can be done - people have had to do it when they put 61/older tail lights onto a 62/newer bug.

Personally, I'd do what I've already done on my Bugs, and made sure my wiring connections are all clean, the bulb sockets and where the bulb sockets screw to the tail light housing on the body (that's how it grounds) and then use some decent quality European style tail light lenses, with the yellow/amber turn signal section.

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111945241KGR

Yellow turn lights in the rear stand out a lot more over the US-spec red.

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VDUB2359
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: How to make brake light flash when turning? Reply with quote

Thank you for your response. It answers my question that the steering column turn signal switch is not designed to override the brake light. The reason I am looking at this option is because right now when my brake light is on and the turn signal is flashing the brake light drowns out the turn signal and you can not see the turn signal. This concerns me for obvious reasons I want to make it very clear to the car behind me where I am heading and what I plan to do. Thanks again for your help and speedy response.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: How to make brake light flash when turning? Reply with quote

VDUB2359 wrote:
Thank you for your response. It answers my question that the steering column turn signal switch is not designed to override the brake light. The reason I am looking at this option is because right now when my brake light is on and the turn signal is flashing the brake light drowns out the turn signal and you can not see the turn signal. This concerns me for obvious reasons I want to make it very clear to the car behind me where I am heading and what I plan to do. Thanks again for your help and speedy response.

Then it's time to clean your grounds. Weak lights on a six volt system are almost always due to bad grounds.
Using the amber tail light lenses like Andy suggested will be noticeable. But that's a bandade for your lighting issue.
Good Luck.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: How to make brake light flash when turning? Reply with quote

I did say to clean the connections up before I mentioned the Euro style lenses... Cool

Last time I cleaned up the tail light bulbholders on my Baja, they looked like this when I was done:

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:48 pm    Post subject: Re: How to make brake light flash when turning? Reply with quote

they should not be dimmed by the brakes. so check for voltage drops and clean up areas that give drops.

you could make the system work as you want by using an early signal switch, like my single bulb sysetm in my 61 bug has. youd need to splice and redo the wires at the dash and wire up to the earler turn signal switch. you could also rig up a system using relay logic to do the same I would think. draw up a circuit and get a hand full of relays. replicate what the early bug turn signal switch does by opening the individual brake filiments to the brake sensor and closing them to the trun signal.


I simply mounted a pair of trailer lamps in each llwer corner of the rear window (inside the car) and rigged them to work with my 61 style brakes/turn lamps. high mount, and bright for both stop and turns. bent up an aluminum sheet metal brakect for them and attached with sheet metal screws to the parcel shelf wall just under the window, did that maybe 28 years ago, stilll works good and is as safe as any of the new fangled thrid brake light jobs out there. plus it is stealth, nothing added outside the car.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: How to make brake light flash when turning? Reply with quote

Thanks to all. My grounds are good. I've checked them. It isn't that the brake light or turn light dims it is that the one seems to optically disappear. You can see it but you really have to look for it. I am considering making my turn signal bulb brighter with a 756 bulb so it overpowers the brake light when they are both on. In this day of tailgaters i don't want my bug to be the one getting swatted.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: How to make brake light flash when turning? Reply with quote

Really, they should be more noticeable than that with the stock spec bulbs in there.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: How to make brake light flash when turning? Reply with quote

Would try the next brighter bulb. or re wire so turn sig bulbs run as brake lights and brake lights are the turn signals. would just be a matter of switching wires.

but pretty sure every one wants to find out why and fix properly.


Fast and dirty way to clean contacts is with a drill and old school pencil.


[img]
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[/img]



Make sure you get the inside of the socket as thats how the bulb grounds. Old truckers trick was to put lapping compound on the side of the socket to polish up the grounds.-but that had its draw backs.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: How to make brake light flash when turning? Reply with quote

IMO.. red turn on red brake/tail lenses.. suck..
No matter the year make or model..
Just like the "snowflakes" (pre 62) and many others on the road that are plagued with turn/stop wash out..
Some lenses/lights are simply more prone to it by bad design.
or.. aesthetics over safety. ...

I was behind a fairly new small SUV a few days ago.. as the turn came on. I noticed it had a separate and small red turn just at the side tip/end of the red tail/stop lens..
Since I was not being distracted while driving .. Rolling Eyes I noticed it.. and realized how bad it was... completely inadequate..
The same old problem of washed out and lack of rear turn segregation is still being slapped on new cars/trucks..
d'oh!

IMO.. The best upgrade for these old tin cans that use the 62-67 (and newer) tail lenses... is to change to the amber top lens..
Yes.. of course.. that's along with using the proper wattage bulbs and having connections and contacts in good condition.

Note
Lots of motorcycle owners/riders add wig wag to the stop lamps..
Flashing lights are more noticeable than solid ..... period..

Wig Wag stops.. or a flashing center stop lamp works well at getting attention.
Search license plate stop light frame

Making a alternating (wig wag) or added combined flash turn/stop flash (per side) is possible.. with added/changed parts.
Not really a bad idea ... as the side selected would flash two bulbs or wig wag (top/center) .. while the other stop is solid and steady....
No harm in a little added safety....
I actually like the idea.. even if its not "original"...

It would be a fairly simple modification.. but would require a change in parts and circuits.

A trailer converter, relays or a 6 wire turn switch... The best advice and method would depend on the voltage being used.. and the willingness to alter or add circuits.

In the mean time..

Drive defensively.. watch your mirrors.. use the amber lens.. Wink
Its not a cure though..

In fact... I have one problem with the amber.. .. sunlight at the right angles can wash out the light color..
So maybe the double bulb flash per side .. isn't such a bad idea ... now is it.?


Keep in mind.. ..chances are ... even if it has a flag man riding safety patrol on the rear bumper.. some jack ass playing on their toy may still slam into it...
.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:49 pm    Post subject: Re: How to make brake light flash when turning? Reply with quote

I know everyone is tired of hearing about grounds, but often overlooked is cleaning the threads where the taillight housing mount to the fenders. Threads, nuts and holes through the fenders on both sides need to be clean. I have not experienced what the OP has happening.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: How to make brake light flash when turning? Reply with quote

VDUB2359 wrote:
Thank you for your response. It answers my question that the steering column turn signal switch is not designed to override the brake light. The reason I am looking at this option is because right now when my brake light is on and the turn signal is flashing the brake light drowns out the turn signal and you can not see the turn signal. This concerns me for obvious reasons I want to make it very clear to the car behind me where I am heading and what I plan to do. Thanks again for your help and speedy response.


Two really simple questions:

1: what bulb are you using for the turn signal?
2: is the plate the between the turn signal bulb and the brake light bulb installed in the lens? Because if it's not I could see that it may cause your problem.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: How to make brake light flash when turning? Reply with quote

VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:

Lots of motorcycle owners/riders add wig wag to the stop lamps..
Flashing lights are more noticeable than solid ..... period..

Wig Wag stops.. or a flashing center stop lamp works well at getting attention.
Search license plate stop light frame

If you research your state's motor vehicle code, I think you will find that flashing brake lights are illegal. The only thing you're allowed to have flashing on your car is the turn signals.
Cops, and other emerg vehicles get an exception.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:11 pm    Post subject: Re: How to make brake light flash when turning? Reply with quote

Bruce wrote:
VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:

Lots of motorcycle owners/riders add wig wag to the stop lamps..
Flashing lights are more noticeable than solid ..... period..

Wig Wag stops.. or a flashing center stop lamp works well at getting attention.
Search license plate stop light frame

If you research your state's motor vehicle code, I think you will find that flashing brake lights are illegal. The only thing you're allowed to have flashing on your car is the turn signals.
Cops, and other emerg vehicles get an exception.


And motorcycles, apparently. I've seen quite a few. Not safe in my opinion.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:43 am    Post subject: Re: How to make brake light flash when turning? Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
Bruce wrote:
VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:

Lots of motorcycle owners/riders add wig wag to the stop lamps..
Flashing lights are more noticeable than solid ..... period..

Wig Wag stops.. or a flashing center stop lamp works well at getting attention.
Search license plate stop light frame

If you research your state's motor vehicle code, I think you will find that flashing brake lights are illegal. The only thing you're allowed to have flashing on your car is the turn signals.
Cops, and other emerg vehicles get an exception.


And motorcycles, apparently. I've seen quite a few. Not safe in my opinion.


And School Buses. ...
Get's you to notice it.. doesn't it.. . that's pretty much the point.. ..

Some find it annoying.. I understand that.

Yes while a flashing stop lamp on a non official vehicle may be illegal in some states/areas and can be enforced.... it's generally not..
Some state/areas realize the safety advantage and permit it.

The typical flashing stop lamp module .. flashes a few seconds (3-4 times) on first brake apply then changes to steady lamp on..
No difference than pumping a brake pedal..

A continuous flashing red stop light is generally illegal.

Some of the rapid flash LED lamps.. are a bit extreme.

Id take the ticket over a smashed car or a hospital bill.



.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: How to make brake light flash when turning? Reply with quote

maybe I missed it here, but I have yet to see a voltage drop test done. how many volts is the bulb getting? you can clean up the tail lamp grounds, the bulb contacts etc.. but may have a huge drop via the trun switch at the steering wheel or in the flasher can itself. so do your self a favof and measure the voltage drop across each componnent, the switch (turn and brake) the fuses, in addition to the drops at the tail light.


consider super bright led conversion, folks sell them custom made for some year bugs, they are very effective, or add high mount lights for stop and or turn.

good luck
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: How to make brake light flash when turning? Reply with quote

The problem with blinking brake lights is that since the US still allows red turn signals (both as separate bulbs and a single blinking brake light), it is not clear (without directing all your attention on that one vehicle) if the car is stopped, slowing, turning, or whatever. I feel it adds to the danger by directing too much attention to the one vehicle, and not to the surrounding situation, which can lead to bad decisions on slowing, lane changes, etc.

Center brake lights. no center brake light. Red blinking turn signals, one or both sides. side turn signals, daylight running lights that may or may not wink when turn signals are engaged, ... too damn many different light behaviors leads to paralysis and tunnel vision in the moments when situational awareness is needed.

DOT studied multi-color and blinking brake lights in the 1970s and concluded it compromised safety, not enhanced it, due to the confusion factor. At about that same time they allowed Euro-style amber turn signals (previously illegal), which would never be mistaken for brake lights, even in the rush of an unexpected traffic situation. They were on the verge of mandating these, but in the last few years more and more cars have gone to red turn signals, a real backward step for safety. Even the standard of safety, Mercedes-Benz, has drank this styling Kool-Aid. Too bad.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: How to make brake light flash when turning? Reply with quote

Sorry for the topic hijack.. but.. Bruce started it.... Razz

Agree to disagree..

Think .. It really makes no difference if a vehicle is stopped, slowing, or turning with a blinking rear (red or amber) lamp.... a driver that is behind or following initial reactions should be the same.. Slow, yield and prepare for the leading vehicles maneuver..

And to note... here in NC.. a vehicles stop lamps are permitted to to be red or amber ..... hows that for the continued confusion..

IMO the argument that the blinking light is a distraction is a prime example of why it does work..


Too many drivers out on the roads NOT paying attention, NOT driving 4-5 cars ahead , mostly locked on with tunnel vision focused on the vehicle in front of theirs ...now that's a major problem ..

Agreed.. red tail lamps with red turn signals ... d'oh! ... are just not quite as visible as ones with an amber turn.

I ride motorcycles too.. I MUST drive like a bid red bulls eye target is on me at all times..

I don't have blinking stop lights on my motorcycles .. but I've witnessed a change in a following drivers reaction when I start to pump the brakes..
If that means.. my flashing stop light just saved my life by a distraction.. that means it simply just worked..

If my memory is correct.. that technique was even advised in basic drivers education courses.. ..for cars..

You can damn bet.. when I finally get my 61 convertible on the road... it will have wig wag stop lamps or some other system to distract... in reality .. to simply get a following drivers attention..

I seriously doubt it would cause someone to have a a seizure ..


.
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Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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