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A Question About a Tired Old Problem
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Z00mie
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Joined: June 18, 2013
Posts: 131
Location: S. Carolina
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: A Question About a Tired Old Problem Reply with quote

I suppose for me it is more of a challenge not to use the relay! I followed the advice of both my mechanic(s) and the folks I've received info from on here which I still consider very sound. The problem is... it still didn't appear to solve the problem initially, well uh, read on.
Well, after crawling around under the car I noticed the large post on the battery connection (not the positive battery cable connector) at the solenoid wasn't terribly tight. I snugged this (and checked al the other connectors). I then moved forward to the grounding strap which was, again, not tight at either end Embarassed . I removed, inspected and degreased the braided cable. I cleaned the attachment points with a stainless brush and mineral spirits. I cut the rubber away at the mounting point around the mounting stud for the front transmission mount to expose shiny metal for ground strap contact and used fresh new nuts and bolts at both connections points. I'm not sure how important it was to get contact on the rubber front isolator because it is a sandwich of rubber around metal, but it made me feel better. I then checked voltage at the starter post (battery connection point): 6.49 volts, and again at the battery: 6.49 volts!
At this point I took the car out and ran it around with headlights, radio and wipers on. I came back and parked it and grilled a couple of steaks. Went back and hit the ignition and viola! Solid restart! Hmmmm? Well, maybe a positive step forward, or maybe a coincidence! A little to early to tell but better than click...

More to come.
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Z00mie
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Joined: June 18, 2013
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Location: S. Carolina
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: A Question About a Tired Old Problem Reply with quote

Oh yeah, the horn is still weak... Confused I guess that'll be a separate problem to solve Rolling Eyes
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flyboy161
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: A Question About a Tired Old Problem Reply with quote

And that sir, is exactly why people rely on the hard start relay. It is not a coincidence that you were having issues with the starter with loose/dirty connections. It is a common belief that current flows from the positive battery post to all points car and then returns through the frame. Actually though, it is the other way around. The electrons originate at the negative post and travel through the frame (and that grounding strap), through the transaxle into the starter housing and stand by inside the solenoid, waiting for you to hit the key. Once you do that, then only then do they find their way back to the positive post and back into the battery.

So you see, that ground strap is the key to the 185-300 amps that is required to turn the starter. And that is a lot of electrons. Good find!

And yes, the horn is a separate issue, but clean all those connections and the brass contact under the horn ring and you'll get it!
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=603879

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Z00mie
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:16 am    Post subject: Re: A Question About a Tired Old Problem Reply with quote

I've gotten a bit clean happy now! I've cleaned to shiny metal the negative battery cable to frame connection, connections at regulator, connections at ignition switch and wiper switch. I found a number of broken strands of cabling at the intersection of the Positive battery cable and the battery terminal (I'll catch that when WW gets a box to me).
As a footnote, I honestly don't believe there is going to be an "AHAH!" moment with this repair as it may very well be an accumulation of little issues that solves the problem. A number of points have shown themselves to have not been ideal and the car seems better for it. Hopefully that will be enough. Its one of the reasons I hate dealing with electrical issues, rarely any finality to the repair. Either way, I thank you folks for the help!
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