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Have you ever saved money with a new AC?
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bigdog1962
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:47 am    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

I can withstand the sales pressure tactics (as in buying a new car, new AC, windows, etc.) but the wife..... Shocked
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:08 am    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

Not A/C, but we've got a couple local HVAC companies who love to scare people by claiming that their furnace has a cracked heat exchanger and they're all going to die of carbon monoxide poisoning because of it.

If they ever try to pull that on you tell them you want a second opinion and you're going to call your gas company to have them do an inspection (it's usually free and they have way more sophisticated test equipment than most HVAC companies). It's fun to watch their faces when they realize that their scam isn't going to work.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:30 am    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

I forgot to mention one nice thing (at least for me) that is nice with the new unit. With today's technology, I can set the thermostat from my smart phone when I'm not at home. In my case, it's been real handy. I set a reminder every day to check the thermostat in the morning. We have two separate units so there are many scenarios where this is useful. No one sleeping upstairs- thermostat goes up, no one at home, coming home from work/extended leave - cool the house down.

In the past, I used to come home and find the air conditioner going full blast with no one home. Now I can manage it better.

However, it still hasn't helped with the bill.... Embarassed
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:

Off the A/C topic but this is why I don't have dual pane windows... everything I have looked at says the cost is insane for the savings you get.
Usually the real issue is air leaks and overall insulation issues rather than the windows themselves.

Not in my case. I live in an older house circa 1934. I replaced my original single pane windows with dual pane and my heating bill went from $400 a month to under $200. So within a few years it was a good investment.
It also pays to shop around. One of the door beater salesman quoted $34K Shocked for 11 windows when it was all said and done with all the discounts applied. I sourced them local for $5K installed.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:33 am    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

You can buy those thermostats from most home improvement warehouses without replacing the whole system.
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bigdog1962
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:51 am    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

It's one of the few tech gadgets I would recommend if your situation is similar to mine.

I wanted to blow a fuse every time I came home and the AC had been running and icicles in the house - as in the scene from Dr. Zhivago.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:16 am    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
I don't have dual pane windows... everything I have looked at says the cost is insane for the savings you get.


Yes, you likely wouldn't live to be old enough to recover the savings. So like with the AC unit, wait until you really have a need to replace windows.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

coad wrote:
Not A/C, but we've got a couple local HVAC companies who love to scare people by claiming that their furnace has a cracked heat exchanger and they're all going to die of carbon monoxide poisoning because of it.

If they ever try to pull that on you tell them you want a second opinion and you're going to call your gas company to have them do an inspection (it's usually free and they have way more sophisticated test equipment than most HVAC companies). It's fun to watch their faces when they realize that their scam isn't going to work.


I'm in the trade and most of my business is replacing furnaces. I probably remove about 50-100 furnaces per year with cracked heat exchangers. Some brands are really bad for it(lennox, carrier, I'm talking to you guys). My phone is full of pictures of cracked heat exchangers.

Be careful. If the tech is young or inexperienced(most guys doing clean outs or annual maintenance are) you might intimidate him into letting your furnace keep running when it shouldn't.

When I tell someone that their heat exchanger is cracked I show them the crack and I've probably already disconnected and capped the gas and power connections to the furnace.

It's not always a scam but like like auto mechanics the bad techs give the whole trade a bad name. Most people these days have as much understanding about what cools their house as they do about what makes their car drive down the street. Almost none.

By the way, the "samba" for the hvac trade is here if anyone's interested
http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

Back in June 2008 I HAD to replace a 20 year old unit (Arkansas summers are brutal!) and my bills went down 30%. With the old unit middle of summer bills were $250 or more but I have not seen this bill amount since.

I was also told by the salesman that since the new unit was more efficient my bills would go down and he was right.

Not a big house but this month's bill was $144.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:02 am    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
EverettB wrote:
I don't have dual pane windows... everything I have looked at says the cost is insane for the savings you get.


Yes, you likely wouldn't live to be old enough to recover the savings. So like with the AC unit, wait until you really have a need to replace windows.

depending on the condition & age of the windows, you can save the replacement cost just in the repairs that would be necessary (my windows were 80+ years old). Because of the # of windows I got a good discount (about $96 per window) & installed them myself. It was a quick ROI in gas bills too.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

It depends on a few things: how hot does it get where you live? What temperature do you want to keep the house at? How much are you paying for electricity? What's the difference in price between a lower efficiency unit and a higher efficiency unit? How energy efficient is your house? Are there any government grants or rebates available in your area?

If you use all of the above to figure out what your payback time is on a higher efficiency unit, then you can decide if it's worth it based on how long you plan to live in the house.

In my climate where we have 4 to 6 weeks per year of air conditioner weather if we're lucky I can't in good conscience recommend high efficiency air conditioning. The payback time is 30+ years. Things are probably different in Georgia though..
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:


Off the A/C topic but this is why I don't have dual pane windows... everything I have looked at says the cost is insane for the savings you get.

Usually the real issue is air leaks and overall insulation issues rather than the windows themselves.


yes, drafts are a killer. when we built our hose, we did the spray foam insulation, good windows and did spray foam around them too.

our house is 100% quiet and comfortable. we have a 330 oil tank, and our first year here we used 1 tank for heat and hot water. averaged out, that's .9 gal/day for oil...and they never fill it to a full 330 either.

we have 2 RUDD achiever series units with air bear air handlers. all the ducts are very well insulated. I was amazed at how good the guys did...they are flawless...

that said, our electric bill is around 150/month. highest we had was 210, but that was with a lot of 5 horse compressor time. the key is insulation, and anyone building a house really should do the foam.

we got a price of 7K for standard fiberglass when we built, but that number jumped to about 11K for spray foam. at this point, I would say it has paid for itself already.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

Replacing my old unit saved me a bunch of $$ on my power bill. I should have done it years earlier.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

my power bill is probably less than half than it was 6 years ago. and the house is biger.I did an addtion and changed the ac unit at the same time. I aosl did a few other things like getting rid of the aluminum frame doubble pane windows for pvc argone filled.and raidiant barrier in the attic on the bottom of the rafters.and solar powered attic ventalators. it all makes a difference.have you had your ac cleaned??? is it all funked up? it has to flow freely on the inside unit and the outside unit , not just a clean or dirty fiter but the evaporator fins need to be clean&free flowing .an ac does not cool the air. it just removes some heat from the air.if the fins are insulated with dirt,grime,dust,dander,pethair whatever. it will run but not remove the heat&moisture like it should and thus run longer trying to do it's job. many ac shops are rip off's but unless you have somebody that can get the unit&do it...you pay the price. there is a lot of mark up on that stuff. mine was about $800 for both units inside&out and new lines &4x8glass sheet too for new plenium. you may also need some duck work or new plenium witch adds to the cost. I did all mine my self. Shocked with some help from my brother who....is in the ac refrigeration bizzness. and got me scratch&dent unit's. (my 34x24 shop is also fully heated&cooled and my bill is still half of what it was back in 2000 when I built my shop before I ever turned on any power,it's also got a lot of insulation&raidiant barrier.and 16' insulated grage door.) gaps under doors,around windows,walls that leek air. there are all sorts of reasons that $$$ get eaten up. but ...it also depends on the unit you have now,it's condition and the new unit that replaces it..
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

Yes

I live in Houston, new AC unit lowered my electric bill. My opinion is that it isn't as cold as the old R22, and has to run more, but uses a lot less electricity so net lower bill

I do keep my AC clean as mentioned. Turn the power off at the breaker box. It probably has a separate main switch near the outdoor unit. Take the top with the fan off. rinse the coils inside out, no high pressure needed, no chemicals needed, just a hose with a good stream. Keep the inside filters clean. These two things will keep a system happy. Every once in a while the evap coils need cleaned if you are using cheap filters. A good spray foam self rinsing cleaner from Home Depot is fine

If you don't feel comfortable doing that, any good AC company does this as part of their checkup before summer. Your power company may provide you with this service at a discount or free.

The power company that I work for will send the AC company to do the above free of charge once a year. Pretty good deal actually, the service call is usually about $150 but can really save you a lot each summer
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
EverettB wrote:


Off the A/C topic but this is why I don't have dual pane windows... everything I have looked at says the cost is insane for the savings you get.

Usually the real issue is air leaks and overall insulation issues rather than the windows themselves.


yes, drafts are a killer. when we built our hose, we did the spray foam insulation, good windows and did spray foam around them too.

our house is 100% quiet and comfortable. we have a 330 oil tank, and our first year here we used 1 tank for heat and hot water. averaged out, that's .9 gal/day for oil...and they never fill it to a full 330 either.

we have 2 RUDD achiever series units with air bear air handlers. all the ducts are very well insulated. I was amazed at how good the guys did...they are flawless...

that said, our electric bill is around 150/month. highest we had was 210, but that was with a lot of 5 horse compressor time. the key is insulation, and anyone building a house really should do the foam.

we got a price of 7K for standard fiberglass when we built, but that number jumped to about 11K for spray foam. at this point, I would say it has paid for itself already.


I was interested in the foam until some in-depth searches yielded some serious issues:
4 Ptifalls of Spray Foam Insulation
Offgassing Issues
Makers of Spray-Foam Insulation Named in Lawsuits


Link



Link


Blown cellulose is a better choice as it won't settle; has better fire-resistance (not fire-proof), and is more cost effective.

Since I live in a sunbelt climate, I opted to install Attic Foil. This product is superior to the foil barrier sold at the Big Box stores. When my helper and I started in my attic, over the garage, the attic temperature was closing in on 85º and outside was over 95º. We finished the garage and measure the temperature in that area and it was under 90º while the attic area over the rest of the house was closing in on 98º. I only have part of the house finished until cooler weather returns, but the difference has been phenomenal. On a 100º day, I can step into the garage and it does not feel like a sweatbox. It does help that the garage door is steel insulated and encased in steel.
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

we have had zero issues with it. no stink or anything. I suppose it would have been picked up when we had testing done (wife has allergies) were there any off gassing issues.

not all foam is created equal. but I do see the hesitation. old house had the blown cellulose and it did settle, as we had some issues that required getting in the walls. 1 "bay" settled about 6"

either way, insulation is key to comfort
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my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

I use a foil backed fabric type in my home,not the bubble rap &not the mylar shit. or mylar shit whth fiberglass backing(1/4" thick) .I ordered it on line from a place in texas. by the roll.i use the 5' roll's.cant tear it has to be cut with sizars and cuts eazely but like I said it dosent tear so it's a lot eayzer and can be stapled up too. in my 24x34 shop I used foil backed/toped 1/2" foam sheets (4x8) that have to have something to hold them up 1/4"x2" x8' wood straps/batts is what I used. I like the stuff I used in the house better. cant push your hand or anything else through it by ax a dent. another thing there are few ac company's left. many are the same unit with diferent badges. and they come pree charged with the freeon . but the tech needs to purge the air out and make sure the right charge is in it for the length of tubing and the evaporator being used. you may also need new lines as the new freeon may need a larger suction line or larger pressure line, mine needed both as it has already been spliced and moved one tyme before.so new lines are/can be a good idea but expensive addition depending on location&length. the freeon pressure is directly correlated to it's temperature. so it needs to be right to cool right and be effishent Shocked Confused yup sellen got me on that one. although pressures can be alterd somwhat to tune in the amprage the unit is pulling, but that needs to be done by somebody with lots of exp&know how/what&why. not just joebubbas ac tuning service. some of the units come with diferent badges so the diferent local small ac installers/co's can "have thier own brand" but it's the same ac unit as the rest. train is different as is that other name brand one..... also some ac installer's&companys switch the collor coded wires around so if somebody else comes to service it or do a "tuneup" they cant because it isant wired right or the way it should be(it is, but wire colors are not in proper locations) kinda like 2 nickles 3 dimes 10 pennys....or 2 quarters.looks different but in reality the same.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
we have had zero issues with it. no stink or anything. I suppose it would have been picked up when we had testing done (wife has allergies) were there any off gassing issues.

not all foam is created equal. but I do see the hesitation. old house had the blown cellulose and it did settle, as we had some issues that required getting in the walls. 1 "bay" settled about 6"

either way, insulation is key to comfort


Absolutely. Glad it worked well for you, but this is one of those issues where a lot of up front research and risk analysis falls into play. During my time of reviewing options, I found a clip of the Canadian version of 20/20 that detailed a home where the homeowners built a new house and went with the foam. Then came the headaches, stench, and other issues. Lawsuits ensued and a lot of money was spent in removal which included pulled the entire roof off of their two story house. It turns out their suit was tied to a US company mentioned in one of the links I posted. The producers of the segment interviewed the owner of a company that does the foam and he detailed how it is critical the crews are trained to mix the chemicals properly; otherwise, all kinds of problems can and will occur.

I had all of the rock wool removed from my attic a few years ago. It's nasty, inefficient, and has a propensity to settle and pack tight which reduces efficiency. Oh, it's also a health hazard. I was going to replace it with batts because my dad always said batts were the best insulation material for houses. This video demonstrates batts are a bad idea. Cellulose used to be bad about settling, but the technology has changed in the past 20 years.

The electrician who updated the electrical system for my house said one huge drawback with foam is if and when the electrical system in a house has to be repaired or modified. There isn't any way to fish a new electrical wire up or down a wall where foam is in use, and tracing wires in the attic is almost impossible when the bays are foam filled. Plumbing is going to have similar concerns.

People shouldn't get hell bent on insulating their houses so tight that there is no natural exchange of air. Some home builders went nuts with that in the late-90s to the point houses had to be fitted with systems to bring fresh air into the house; otherwise, the air would stagnate and promote mold and mildew growth.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Have you ever saved money with a new AC? Reply with quote

I wonder if that was around the time when that Chinese drywall was being made. IIRC, it stunk like sulfur and mold LOVED it. seemed worse in the south where it was humid most of the time. several homes were destroyed because of the junk....but hey "I got a good deal on it" was probably the mentality Laughing
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my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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