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Enkiel Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2004 Posts: 2771 Location: Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:07 am Post subject: Help welding floor on my bus |
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So last night i started welding my cargo floor, with some success, and some failure.
The frame :
the floor :
So i started with the part above the rocker. It was okay, with one or two weld without enough penetration to stick. Good news; i drilled enough to still weld it correctly.
Next part i did was the front, near the seat stand. Again, it was okay. Maybe 1 out of the 10 didnt penetrate.
When came time to weld the I tho, all hell broke loose.
Here's the information i gathered with my failure ;
- The piece arent sitting perfectly in some place. Those that didnt stick were those that i had to put my weight on it to close them together. Once it started to cool off, i hear a "TIC" and it detach itself..
- I tried different setting, but i'm not sure what to do. I usually use "A" for power, and "2" for wire feed (Lincoln Mig Pak 15). This work for 18 Ga no problem. I figured maybe it was the problem, so i went with "B" and "2"... same issue... so i tried "C" and "2"... and i burnt a hole throught the floor... I guess since the I is pretty thick (1/16 maybe?) it doesnt penetrate enough to weld to it... what's my option then?
- Holes are 3/32. Are they too small?
After about 10 failure with different attempt, i decided to sleep on it and try again once i get some advice on how to do it... _________________ 1964 Turkis Flipseat |
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57BLITZ Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2012 Posts: 2385 Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Help welding floor on my bus |
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IMO . . . 3/32" holes are too small. I would have made them 3/16", BUT . . .the floor is now in the proper position and tacked in, correct?
You will need to work with the small holes.
If it were me, I would stand on the floor to get it in good contact with the cross-members and put some sheetmetal screws through the floor and into the cross-members to hold the floor in contact. That's very important!
If the floor metal is not in contact with the metal below it, you WILL have problems!
Next, drill through the existing 3/32" holes with a 1/8" drill . . . all the way through the top layer of the cross-member!
Then, enlarge the hole in the sheet metal to about 3/16" . . . using a multi-flute countersink bit will probably work much better than a drill bit because it will not grab and pull the sheetmetal away from the cross-member.
On the ones that "popped", drill through them and start over.
Set the heat on the welder to 3 and the wire speed to around 5. You want to get enough heat to penetrate the thick crossmember. You will avoid burning through the thin sheet metal by adjusting the length of time you weld.
Start the arc NOT on the floor, but in the small hole in the crossmember . . . If you find that yer "blowing-through" the crossmember, just start the arc for a second and stop for just a second . . . before it stops glowing, start the arc again in the center of the hole and continue the weld until it fills the hole up to the level of the sheet metal . . . the "puddle" will grow in diameter and fill the hole when you hold your torch right in the center of the puddle without moving it in a circle.
In other words, do not move the arc out to the sheetmetal.
Watch closely and you will be able to see the pool grow until it melts into the edge of the hole in the floor.
If you get the wire feed and your timing correct, the weld will shrink so as being just about flush with the surface of the floor . . . a beautiful thing to behold!
On the welds that "popped", drill through them and start over.
You will, of course, finish the job by removing the sheet metal screws and welding those holes in a similar manner. _________________ Jesucristo es mi Seņor y Salvador! |
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Enkiel Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2004 Posts: 2771 Location: Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Help welding floor on my bus |
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thanks!
Yes, the floor is tacked in.... the surrounding was welded on thinner metal, so there was no penetration issue.
When you talk about power to 3 and wire speed to 5, do you mean for the whole thing or just those that popped?
If i understand correctly ;
#1 - Enlarge hole (re-drill the popped one)
#2 - screw the floor to the beam
#3 - set to power 3 speed 5, and weld from the middle, without moving, until the pool fill the hole.
#4 - remove the screw
#5 - Weld the hole left from the screw
Is that right?
I'll try these tips tomorrow (its 40 celcius today, no way in hell i'm welding!) _________________ 1964 Turkis Flipseat |
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57BLITZ Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2012 Posts: 2385 Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:11 am Post subject: Re: Help welding floor on my bus |
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Enkiel wrote: |
Yes, the floor is tacked in.... the surrounding was welded on thinner metal, so there was no penetration issue. |
You are now having issues getting penetration into the actual crossmember before the weld closes the (Too Small) hole in the floorboard.
Enkiel wrote: |
When you talk about power to 3 and wire speed to 5, do you mean for the whole thing or just those that popped? |
You need to up the power on the welder where you are welding the floor to the thicker crossmember.
Enkiel wrote: |
If i understand correctly ;
#1 - Enlarge hole (re-drill the popped one)
#2 - screw the floor to the beam
#3 - set to power 3 speed 5, and weld from the middle, without moving, until the pool fill the hole.
#4 - remove the screw
#5 - Weld the hole left from the screw
Is that right?
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I think you have the concept.
The floor has "ridges" and "valleys".
Where each "valley" is setting on the crossmember, you have two holes . . . about 4cm apart. Ultimately, you will be welding through both of those holes.
SO . . . working with each PAIR of holes . . .
Put a screw into one of the holes to hold that area tight to the crossmember.
Again I stress the importance of having the floor in direct contact with the crossmember. That's why you are using the screws as a temporary "clamping system".
Then, enlarge the hole that's next to the screw, and weld the newly enlarged hole.
Next, remove the screw from the hole and weld that hole .
FWIW . . . Ya might consider picking one hole from EVERY one of those pairs and put a screw in until you have one hole from every pair welded before you remove all the screws.
That's to avoid working a buckle into the floorboard.
In other words . . . screws in 50% of the holes, weld the other 50% of the holes, remove all the screws and weld the holes left from removing the screws.
Ya might want to work from the side that is already tacked and work towards the free edge of the floor. _________________ Jesucristo es mi Seņor y Salvador! |
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beetlenut Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009 Posts: 2980 Location: RI
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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Help welding floor on my bus |
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IMO you need larger holes. I used 1/4 inch holes when I did my pans with a Lincoln Weld Pack 110. Here's why. You need to start the plug weld in the center of the hole, on the bottom metal. You really don't have to move the wire over to the top upper thinner metal. Just let the heat and puddle build up in the center of the hole, and it will flow out to the top metal (provided you have good tight contact between sheets). Once it flows out and makes contact with the outer edge of the hole, stop welding. I found I needed a 1/4 inch hole so I could make sure I started the wire in the center of the hole on the bottom metal. You can try that technique on the smaller holes you have remaining, but it will be challenging. I also used reading glasses under my helmet to better see the hole and wire relation. _________________ scrapyards are for quitters
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Wetstuff wrote: |
... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
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Enkiel Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2004 Posts: 2771 Location: Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Help welding floor on my bus |
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Following your advice, it worked! I heard only one dreaded pop, and i'm not sure if it was my weld at all in the end....
here's a copy of my post over at the Split bus thread ;
Quote: |
Well, i couldnt resist.
First i redrilled every hole connecting to the I Beam with 1/4 drill, making sure to drill a bit inside the I Beam.
Then, following 57BLITZ advice over at Body/Paint forum, i used self tapping screw (i think that's the name?) to close the gap between the two piece.
Going where i've never been before, i pumped the power to C and wire speed to 5, and went on welding...
The result is some of my best welding ever. For now you'll have to take my word for it. All i can say is that i can clearly see that it penetrated the I Beam very well this time by looking under the floor. |
_________________ 1964 Turkis Flipseat |
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