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lowlifenotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 05, 2016
Posts: 33
Location: Springfield, mo
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 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:18 pm Post subject: 1500 rebuild yes or no? |
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Picked up a 62 notch and am trying to decide on rebuilding the 1500 or going with something a little bigger... My 65 bug has a 1641 that moves it around very well. I dont now how well the 1500 does or what it can do.. any opinions or advice?
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: 1500 rebuild yes or no???? |
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Early '62 car? Keep it all original.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
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Aaron M265
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2008
Posts: 656
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
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lowlifenotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 05, 2016
Posts: 33
Location: Springfield, mo
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: 1500 rebuild yes or no???? |
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| Does anyone know if that 1500 has any go it. ? Seems so small |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: 1500 rebuild yes or no???? |
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| The twin carb 1500 "S" veraion had plenty of go. Ray |
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SBD
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012
Posts: 3269
Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: 1500 rebuild yes or no???? |
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| Aaron Britcher wrote: |
| Bear in mind the engine bay sizing limitations on the early cars if you decide to go non original. |
Are the early Type III engine bays smaller than later cars? I know this applies to Beetles but never heard it about the Type III. Just curious... 
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"Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"
| mark tucker wrote: |
| I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: 1500 rebuild yes or no???? |
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| SBD wrote: |
| Aaron Britcher wrote: |
| Bear in mind the engine bay sizing limitations on the early cars if you decide to go non original. |
Are the early Type III engine bays smaller than later cars? I know this applies to Beetles but never heard it about the Type III. Just curious... |
Yes- 1961-3 is a smaller engine compartment. It was expanded in August 1963 for the 1964 model year to accommodate the "S" twin carb engine.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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SBD
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012
Posts: 3269
Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: 1500 rebuild yes or no? |
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I'll probably never work on one, but it's good to know. 
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"Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"
| mark tucker wrote: |
| I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it. |
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Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: 1500 rebuild yes or no? |
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| Multi69s wrote: |
| Just curious, would slipping in a set of 1600 P&Cs really affect the value of the car? It seems that it will give it a little more pep, without being an obvious or undoable change. That's also assuming that the OP keeps everything else original. |
No- not really at all, which is why we're recommending it.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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lowlifenotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 05, 2016
Posts: 33
Location: Springfield, mo
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: 1500 rebuild yes or no? |
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| Well I'm taking the advice I've gotten and actually dropping the motor off next week. Going to have built out to a 1600. I'm going to refurbish the original distributor and coil. I have most of the OG tins so I'm going to clean those up. Try to keep it as of looking as I can. |
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lowlifenotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 05, 2016
Posts: 33
Location: Springfield, mo
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: 1500 rebuild yes or no? |
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| I do have a ? Does anyone have any opinions on the tranny. My 65 had a freeway flyer and I did great on the highway. Is that something I should consider for this car ? |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:34 am Post subject: Re: 1500 rebuild yes or no? |
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| lowlifenotch wrote: |
| I do have a ? Does anyone have any opinions on the tranny. My 65 had a freeway flyer and I did great on the highway. Is that something I should consider for this car ? |
It really depends on what your plans are for the car. In your area, you might be better off with what you have (due to some of the steep hills in your area). But if you're planning on doing a lot of long distance cruising (at high speed), you might want to look at a freeway flyer. Keep in mind that doing so might cause you to be in 3rd gear a lot due to the way they're set up (most have a large gap between 3rd and 4th). I only say this, as I have a freeway flyer in my 65 Notch, and I've been in Missouri with it.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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superalex
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2008
Posts: 60
Location: tavira, algarve, portugal, europe
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: 1500 rebuild yes or no? |
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Sorry to steal your tread, but ive got only a small question somehow related to the theme:
Are 1500 and 1600 engine blocks the same?
I came across a O and a KO and i want to build a 1600 since i have all the parts |
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DerrickB
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2016
Posts: 8
Location: Medford, OR
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: 1500 rebuild yes or no? |
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My 73 Squareback will hold 65 on the freeway all day long, which is not really something I ever intended for it. If I want to drive all day long, it will definitely need a new seat. It has enough pep left over that I would not feel deeply embarassed by the loss of 100cc of engine. My 2 cents? Rebuild the 1500 and be proud of it.
I'm not sure these cars were ever meant to do American freeway speeds. I think of my brother's imported Land Cruiser that sounds really unhealthy at 55MPH, sure in the knowledge that the engineers who designed it didn't actually intend it to be a freeway vehicle. Your 1500 will easily do freeway speeds unless you live in Colorado or other mountainous terrain - and there are new cars being built today that don't like those hills.
For me, and everybody is different, a major part of the appeal of my Squareback is the fact that it has a small, simple, air-cooled engine that will get me safely and surely from Point A to Point B with some respectable gas mileage, using technology that was still being refined when I was born. I think a smaller engine would make me like it more.
I'm not explaining this well, but my position is pretty clear. I would either stick with the original and be *very* proud of it, or go big, and if I was going big, I wouldn't stop at 1600. Why go through the hassles and such to go non-stock and then only go a little bit? |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: 1500 rebuild yes or no? |
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| DerrickB wrote: |
My 73 Squareback will hold 65 on the freeway all day long, which is not really something I ever intended for it. If I want to drive all day long, it will definitely need a new seat. It has enough pep left over that I would not feel deeply embarassed by the loss of 100cc of engine. My 2 cents? Rebuild the 1500 and be proud of it.
I'm not sure these cars were ever meant to do American freeway speeds. I think of my brother's imported Land Cruiser that sounds really unhealthy at 55MPH, sure in the knowledge that the engineers who designed it didn't actually intend it to be a freeway vehicle. Your 1500 will easily do freeway speeds unless you live in Colorado or other mountainous terrain - and there are new cars being built today that don't like those hills.
For me, and everybody is different, a major part of the appeal of my Squareback is the fact that it has a small, simple, air-cooled engine that will get me safely and surely from Point A to Point B with some respectable gas mileage, using technology that was still being refined when I was born. I think a smaller engine would make me like it more.
I'm not explaining this well, but my position is pretty clear. I would either stick with the original and be *very* proud of it, or go big, and if I was going big, I wouldn't stop at 1600. Why go through the hassles and such to go non-stock and then only go a little bit? |
Because, on his particular car, going any bigger makes it necessary to modify the engine area.
The 1600 is actually a very good upgrade. It almost doesn't make sense to not do it.
As to modern highway speeds... Interstates were always 70 until the energy crisis, in 1974. That was when it went to 55.
While certainly not speed demons, VWs of the era didn't have a whole lot of issues maintaining the speed limit, with the exception of 36 and 40 HP Buses.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: 1500 rebuild yes or no? |
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| superalex wrote: |
Sorry to steal your tread, but ive got only a small question somehow related to the theme:
Are 1500 and 1600 engine blocks the same?
I came across a O and a KO and i want to build a 1600 since i have all the parts |
Except for the very early 1500 cases they are the same. What I mean by that, is the early 1500 engines didn't use cam bearings in them. That could be corrected by a good machinist though.
So yes, go a head and build a 1600.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: 1500 rebuild yes or no? |
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| DerrickB wrote: |
I'm not sure these cars were ever meant to do American freeway speeds.
For me, and everybody is different, a major part of the appeal of my Squareback is the fact that it has a small, simple, air-cooled engine that will get me safely and surely from Point A to Point B with some respectable gas mileage, using technology that was still being refined when I was born. I think a smaller engine would make me like it more. |
I've got a 65 Notch with dual Solex carbs, a fresh 1600 (based on an all aluminum case), and I'm running a freeway flyer trans in it (out of a 73 Super beetle).That car WILL run 70+ all day long, and I've driven it from Carthage Missouri to my home in Michigan straight thru with only gas stops and food stops (drive thru window) along the way. I never ever shut off the engine, and it took me 16.5 hours to get home. The rest of the time, it's a 3 season point A to point B car. Yes, my mileage could be better (averages 25-26.5 highway), but then I have a heavy right foot and a car that's not as areodynamic as a new car.
Unless the OP's engine has dome pistons in it (some 1500's had them), he might as well rebuild his engine as a 1600.They're a great little engine, and they'll live a long time. I like mine. When I rebuilt my 71 Notch, I built that engine up as a 1600 too.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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sjbartnik
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5998
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:52 am Post subject: Re: 1500 rebuild yes or no? |
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| DerrickB wrote: |
I'm not sure these cars were ever meant to do American freeway speeds. |
?? These cars were meant to run flat out. In their home country there are lots of freeways with no speed limits at all. Foot to the floor & go as fast as you can! I suspect this is why VW made a point of mentioning in the owner's manuals that top speed & cruising speed are one and the same.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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Aaron M265
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2008
Posts: 656
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:28 am Post subject: Re: 1500 rebuild yes or no? |
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I avoid having too much input on here (but yes I read everything).
You would be surprised how well a 1500cc or 1600cc engine can go if properly set up. Even stock as a rock with 'cautious' compression and valve sizing etc they are fine.
But throw some fun into the equation by stepping up the cylinder dimensions slightly, slightly more cam, more compression, potentialy reduce rotating mass, larger valves and port work, then stick an Abarth or vintage speed muffler on (as much as I despise these mufflers they have their place). Hell you can even swing a 74mm(+) crank in there and yet keep the engine visualy stock. Get creative and create a 356 style exhaust to keep people guessing! The sky is the limit. The engine size isn't exactly the limiting factor.
Of course you can try for 20 or so years to gather up the parts like I have and create a period correct 1493cc based engine that uses era correct only performance parts to hot rod your notchback but I don't recommend that as it will make you both poor and mad.
A standard engine to look at on a Type 3 is also beautiful thing and I hope you can work within those visual cues to do something brilliant. Hell I have even had my 6V Bosch blue coil painted in the correct black paint to hide the fact it was a blue coil! (it was silver to be honest but you get the idea).
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http://1500notchback.blogspot.com/
Need to contact me? Email is faster than a PM - [email protected]
For T3 Panel Van information:
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