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Thing wiring issue
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Bucky85
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:02 pm    Post subject: Thing wiring issue Reply with quote

This Thing's wiring is driving me nuts! I have two problems, the horn doesn't work, and the right turn signal doesn't work. I have running lights on both sides that work just fine. I just replaced my turn signal switch and relay last month, I couldn't find the original one, so I went with the three prong version and wired it up according to the thing shop's instructions. I've poured over all the schematics I can find but can't find anything wrong with my set up. The only thing I cant find is, according to the wiring diagrams, there is a inline fuse for the turn signals. I have no idea physically where it is and I've looked over every inch of that wire that I can see. Is there any chance that the emergency flasher relay could cause an issue? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
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mondshine
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: Thing wiring issue Reply with quote

I don't know what wiring diagram you are using, but there should be no inline fuse for the turn signals.
Check these:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/181_Wiring_Diagram_4-73.pdf
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/181_Current_Flow_Diagram_4-73.pdf

Very often, the turn signal problem you describe is due to bad grounds. Check there first.

Re: the horn, the first place to look is to the jumper wire that bridges the rubber steering coupler. There is lots of information on horn troubleshooting in this forum.

Good luck, Mondshine
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sam_w
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: Thing wiring issue Reply with quote

I have a few issues with the wiring in my new 74.
I have the 73 wiring diagrams.
Is the wiring the same soer 73 & 74?
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mondshine
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: Thing wiring issue Reply with quote

Sam-
The only differences I have ever noticed are related to the gas heater (excluded on '74 models).
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sam_w
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:41 am    Post subject: Re: Thing wiring issue Reply with quote

OK
Now I will try to get the side lights to work when the switch is first pulled out.
The headlight to go off when the ignition is turned off.
The lighting in the speedo to work.
The blue high beam indicator light to operate on high, not low!
The left turn signal to work when my foot is off the brake.

Just a bunch of minor issues, but can be done with patience.
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Captain Spalding
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: Thing wiring issue Reply with quote

Haha Sam. Sounds like my Land Rover. Lucas, Prince of Darkness.

Bucky, which turn signal is not working? Front, rear, or both?
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Semper_Dad
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Thing wiring issue Reply with quote

The only inline fuse I know about in a 74 would be the reverse lights.

As for the horn,...do you have the ground jumper across the steering coupler?

Is there power at the horn itself? Ground the other side, then work your way up the steering column (including the steering coupler).
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Bucky85
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Thing wiring issue Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply's.

Semper - Thanks I'll take a look at it. I'm not use to how old cars are wired.

Captian - It's the whole right side. I have running lights, just no turn signal.

Mondshine - Thanks I'll take a look at those.

Thanks again all.
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Captain Spalding
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:11 am    Post subject: Re: Thing wiring issue Reply with quote

Bucky, We're going to figure this out.

So you say that the running lights work. The running lights share a ground with the turn signals, so if the running lights are working, then we know the problem isn't a ground.

Do the right side turn signal lamps flash when the emergency flasher switch is pulled out?
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Bucky85
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Thing wiring issue Reply with quote

Yes the running lights work and no, nothing happens when I use the emergency flasher.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Thing wiring issue Reply with quote

Bucky85 wrote:
Yes the running lights work and no, nothing happens when I use the emergency flasher.


So left turn signals work, right turn signals don't work. Emergency flashers don't work? All four or just the right side? If the left turn signals work, but not the left emergency flashers, that is a weird thing.

Let's walk through the whole system, and with fresh perspective you may be able to take a second whack at a diagnosis. Here's the wiring diagram with the turn signals/emergency flashers emphasized:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Power comes from the battery, through the red/white wire via the starting motor up to the light switch.
It leaves the light switch and makes its way via a red/white wire to the upstream side of the number 9 fuse, where it is jumpered over to the number 10 fuse.
Power leaves the downstream side of the number 10 fuse and goes via a red/black wire to terminal 30 on the Emergency Flasher switch. Now, the emergency flasher switch gets power from 2 wires. It gets unswitched power from this same red/black wire. This is the power that operates the emergency flashers even when the key is out.

Let's go back to the headlamp switch. There's a red/black wire that goes from the headlamp switch to terminal x on the key switch. Then there's a black wire that goes up to fuse number 1. Power continues away from fuse 1 via a green wire to the emergency flasher switch.

When the turn signals are in use, they're using switched power from the green wire coming from fuse number 1. When the emergency flashers are in use, they are using unswitched power from the red/black wire coming from fuse 10.

Whether turn signals or emergency flashers are in use, the next bit applies to both. Power goes from terminal + on the emergency flasher switch via a white wire to the flasher relay, and then returns from terminal 49a on the relay to terminal 49a on the emergency flasher switch.

In the case of the turn signals, the now on-off power jumpers off the blue wire at terminal 49a on the emergency flasher switch and goes to the turn signal switch, where it get distributed to either the left or right turn signals by the switch. The on-off power travels back to the emergency flasher switch, and without interacting with the emergency flasher switch merely jumpers away to the turn signals.

In the case of the emergency lamps, on-off power comes back to the emergency flasher switch via the blue wire, but when the switch is actuated, the on-off power gets passed to the black/green and black/white wires and on out to the turn signals.

That's how it is supposed to work.

The emergency flasher switch is pretty central to the situation and it acts as a hub for the turn signals.

The first thing I would do is open up the right dash pod and check all the connections to the emergency flasher switch. Check all the wiring connections between the fuses, the emergency switch, the turn signal switch, and the relay.

Assuming they are correct, I'd then put a meter on terminal 30 of the emergency flasher switch. It should be hot all the time, key switched on or removed. Then I'd turn the engine on and put the meter on the + terminal. It should be hot when the car is on and not when it's off. Then I'd put a meter on 49a and see if the relay ticks. (I think it should tick when it's grounded by the meter.) With the emergency flasher switch pulled out, check to see that there is continuity between terminal 49a and terminals R and L. What you're doing here is testing the emergency flasher switch.

By the way, it can pose a risk to the coil when when the ignition switch is on but the engine is not running. Don't leave the key on with the engine off for more than a few seconds.

I don't know if any of this will help. I have no idea what could cause only the right turn signals not to work, but all of the flashers not to work.
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sam_w
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Thing wiring issue Reply with quote

Thanks
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Bucky85
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Thing wiring issue Reply with quote

Thanks, That's a lot of info. I'll check it out this weekend, and yes the left turn signals work just fine. Nothing works when you pull the emergency switch and the right turn signals don't work. Thanks again and I'll update when I check those things that you mentioned.
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Bucky85
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Thing wiring issue Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Where are these terminals physically located?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:46 pm    Post subject: " Reply with quote

I've never actually had to look for them, so I can't say for sure. But it stands to reason that they'd have to be behind the instrument panel. I'm pretty sure the tail light wiring goes down the right side of the tunnel, and the front light wiring goes through the "firewall" at the far left side, forward of the fuse box. It should be a simple matter to trace the black/green and black/white wires from where they leave the emergency flasher switch.
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Bucky85
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Thing wiring issue Reply with quote

Thanks, It would be a lot easier to trace these wires if they were the right color. I guess the guy who had it before me "fixed" some of the wiring.
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Bucky85
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Thing wiring issue Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

So about this horn, this might be a dumb question, but is this tab suppose to touch the bottom of the wheel? If so, do I need to bend it back or is the steering wheel too far separated? Thanks again for the help.
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kenj06
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Thing wiring issue Reply with quote

The gap should be about 1/8"
check this thread to adjust:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634985&view=previous
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Bucky85
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Thing wiring issue Reply with quote

I thought it was off, thanks I'll fix it and hope that corrects the horn issue.
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Rev. Scott
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Thing wiring issue Reply with quote

Captain Spalding wrote:
Haha Sam. Sounds like my Land Rover. Lucas, Prince of Darkness.

Bucky, which turn signal is not working? Front, rear, or both?


Haha! I've been known to run English bikes. Why Do the English drink warm beer? Because their refrigerators are made by Lucas!
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