1960 Brake Light troubles. What am i missing.

[matthew henricks]

Troubleshooting brake lights on a 60 Single Cab. I have searched and read all the basic posts ion checking connections and how brake switches can be bad.

Brakes worked two years ago but Bus has sat for a while. Time to get on the road but they are not working any more.

Facts.
- Wire harness is good. (Stock Wiring works)
- Tail lights are good and really bright.
- Ground wires direct from tail light housing to ground.
- Turn Signals work although right blinks double time for some reason.
- 3 pin turn Signal.
- 49 to fuse block
- 49a to turn switch and dash pod
- 31 to ground.
- New Brake switch
- Fuses are in tact.

The fiddle.
- Direct cross of brake switch does NOT turn lights on.
- Have pulled off and manipulated:
- All fuses
- Fuse block wire
- Flasher relay ground lug.
- Tail light connections
- Junction between turn signals and rest of bus wires.
-Stock 6 position screw terminal block.
- All terminals on flasher relay.

I thought once i had the brake lights come on with the brake switch shorted after fiddling with the 6 terminal block but i cannot repeat it so i doubt what i saw. Have tried with ignition on and off. My dash pod turn signal light does not flash but i think that is the bulb. All other lights work.

Am i missing a connection somewhere?

My next idea are:
- Bypass the turn switch to see if it is in there somewhere.
- Swap the taillight and brake light lines at the tail light housing to see if the brake side of the bulbs come on with the headlamps.
- Remove 6 position junction and direct tie wires.
- Hard cross brake switch wire at 6 position terminal block direct to each brake light wire.

I have not polished all the connections yet but i fear i am missing something basic.

Matthew

[dcfies]

I also have a '60 SC. I lost my lights when I tried to plug up a trailer. None of the rear lights worked.

Turns out something in the turn signal fried. Replaced it and all lights work fine, now.

[EverettB]

First thing I thought of:
You didn't say if you are getting power to the brake light switch?
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[matthew henricks]

12V confirmed at brake switch (Black/Red wire) and then again at 5 pin turn signal junction. (Black/Red) No 12V coming back out of the junction from the turn switch. (Black/Yellow & Black/Orange)

Note i have independent ground wires screwed into each brake light housing and then routed to the negative side of the battery to eliminate the common grounding issue.

- Ran bypass wires to both tail lights and to the brake switch to confirm continuity. All OK.
- Tied 12V from fuse block directly to lines to brake lamps.
- By itself Passenger side dim and flaky. (Black/Orange)
- By itself drivers side nothing. (Black/Yellow)
- Tied them together on a whim and both worked. Huh????
- Fiddled with the wires at the brake light. Found one ground looser than i would like and hey.... The drivers side bulb contact fell right off the housing. Bingo... so i thought.

- Fixed housing and cleaned all surfaces. Still not working.

Go back to fuse block area. Take all wires out and check each out one by one. Find nothing special BUT.... When put all back together it now works.

So, obvious something flaky somewhere but not sure where. Will see if it still works tonight and test drive tomorrow.

Moral of the story. I don't know. Not sure what i missed Monday that suddenly worked yesterday. Gotta love old VW's.

Matthew

[Eric&Barb]

Probably loose/corroded connections. Once a load is put on them, the voltage can drop off.

Have you soldered up the internal riveted connections in the fuse box and headlight switch?


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=483901&highlight=fuse+box+soldering

and

http://type2.com/library/electris/vw-hauptlicht-schalter.html
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[matthew henricks]

Hmm.... No but that is a great idea. I also know i am not in the market for tail light housings as the plastic holders for the bulb tanks are all cracked out.

Never ending....

[Eric&Barb]

[EDragnDean]

brake switch, or turn signal switch. blinking double time is in indication on of the lights are not working. Check your grounds.
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[matthew henricks]

Yes. That is what i meant Eric. (I do not have a pair of German Tanks that i need to replace. haha)

I will check the double time blinking again now that the brake lights appear to work. Will you get double time if the dash bulb is out too?

Matthew

[Braukuche]

[Starbucket]

Remove the front and rear bulbs and polish the brass and lead contacts then polish the bulb sockets and contact points (pry out the side ground contact slightly with a thin screwdriver) then put it back together and it should work fine. Sitting for a few years corrodes the sockets/bulbs. Double flash means the relay thinks the opposite bulb on that side is burnt out.

[EverettB]

[matthew henricks]

Is it funny or is it just me that when searching for brake light help i find my own thread from 2 years ago on the same topic? Man i forget things.

This is back. Still need some help.

- Have 12V to the brake switch.
- Have continuity between every joint.
- Brake switch to fuse box
- Brake switch to turn switch. (At the 5 screw joint)
- Fuse box to tail light housing.
- New brake light switch.
- Voltage when i press the brake peddle is not 12V across the switch.
- Shorting the brake light switch wires together no 12V past the switch.
- Head lights and turn signals work fine.
- Tail lights work.
- Tail light housing are grounded to the negative battery cable.

I suspect the problem is in the turn signal switch which honestly i do not know how to diagnose.

Any help or threads out there?

[Eric&Barb]

Check voltage at the turn signal switch.
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[matthew henricks]

[matthew henricks]

Voltage measurements.

- 12V from battery ground to Battery positive through my extension cable to confirm my cable works.
- 12V between bat ground and right side of brake light switch.
- Depress brake peddle and voltage drops to .1V
- Jumper both brake light switch terminals together voltage drops to .1V
- Voltage back to turn signal .1V

I noticed when i jumpered the two together that the wire got warm. No fuses have blown.

Again turn signals work. They are different speeds left/right but they work. Head lights and rear running lights work.

Right now i am of the opinion that i did not solve this back in 2016 and forgot and the problem is in the turn signal switch since everything else has continuity and works.

Any guidance?

[telford dorr]

[BarryL]

This last post reads like there is a short in the wire that travels from the cold side of the brake light switch to the brake lights. Odd that your turn signal filaments still work with turn signals.

Maybe try running a jumper from the hot side of the brake light switch to the rear of the bus and touch the brake light contact just to see if you can momentarily get them to light. If there is a short in the harness cold side wire then it probably won't work. Don't leave it there a long time.

If it doesn't work then unplug the cold brake light wire at the brake lights and retest with the jumper from the hot side of the brake light switch.

[Eric&Barb]

If you had a short, it should have blown a fuse.

Thinking you have a bad wire or connection up stream of the brake switch that is causing the voltage drop when a electrical load is applied. Try removing the wire at the brake sender going to the TS and TLs. Wire up an electrical load like a spare TL bulb holder with the proper bulb and set it up so both filaments will turn on. Then see if it lights up and how much voltage is getting to the test bulb.
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[matthew henricks]

Thank you guys. Been checking things.

- right and left turn lights work.
- head lights and tail lights work.

This means both sides of the tail light housing and the wiring is good and intact. Also means the bulbs work.

Wire harness is an unmolested wiring works unit.

Pulled out the turn switch and cleaned it. Nothing obviously wrong.

Few items to note.
1. Power to turn switch runs thru flasher but is always tied to fuse box. Not sure that is normal.

2. Factory harness indicates two black/red wires on the turn switch. I have one. Other is black purple.

Still looking.