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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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 Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:48 am Post subject: Brake Lights don't work |
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I have been tracing my steps on the build up of my 7/1970 Bus. I have all turn signal lights working, all running lights working.
When I hit the hazards, all but the left rear lights will flash. Everything else, great.
Horn does not work and after reading, I do not think I have a door buzzer working. I no longer have a rear defroster, but both interior lights work on the switch on the lights, not when the door opens.
I did replace the flasher switch as it fell apart when removing it from the dash but took pictures prior to make sure I installed it correctly. I purchase the switch based on the part number from Wolfsburg west.
Taking a step back, when taking it apart, I noticed a fatter yellow wire going to the switch but none of the diagrams show it. That being said, the new switch is missing the 58f terminal like this one.
My old one looked like this
and E is missing on the new one.
When I check the circuits, when the flashers are on, the black and white wire that goes to the left rear light does NOT blink.
I have factory lights up front, original turn signal switch, aftermarket flasher switch, OEM relays, LED tail Lights that are grounded and work nicely, but the bus has not been driven since 1985.
The dash light on the gauge cluster does not go out when the car is on and I only have one brake light switch due to a disc brake conversion.
I can post as many pictures as needed.
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51112
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Brake Lights don't work |
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That's the wrong switch for combined brake/signal tail lights, it'll work with a Euro system or a 72+ North American bus, but the lack of a terminal 54 means it just doesn't have the guts to do what you need.
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51112
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Lights don't work |
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The early hazard switch performs multiple functions, it separates or combines the front signals, switches the power source for the flasher from ignition to battery and combines or separates the brake lights. The switch you have can't do that. Your yellow wire is from the fuse box and provides keyed power to the signal system in non hazard mode. Each terminal on the OG switch has a number beside it that coincides with a colored wire on the diagram, different switches have a different terminal layout and just putting the same wires in the same locations won't work.
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Lights don't work |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| The early hazard switch performs multiple functions, it separates or combines the front signals, switches the power source for the flasher from ignition to battery and combines or separates the brake lights. The switch you have can't do that. Your yellow wire is from the fuse box and provides keyed power to the signal system in non hazard mode. Each terminal on the OG switch has a number beside it that coincides with a colored wire on the diagram, different switches have a different terminal layout and just putting the same wires in the same locations won't work. |
Thank you so much for this info. Keyed power is Yellow, check. I will check the numbers again but it looks like I need to find a new switch first.
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51112
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Lights don't work |
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Either of those switches you linked should work.
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Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Lights don't work |
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| Quote: |
| I have been tracing my steps on the build up of my 7/1970 Bus. |
Ok so you have a 1970 bus.
| Quote: |
| Horn does not work and after reading, |
You want to look at the 68-74 stuff
Horn All
| Quote: |
| I do not think I have a door buzzer working. |
Find H5 hazard relay, which plugs into the fuse box.
H5>86>fuse #2
H5>85>F2 door swtch>D ignition switch terminal S
click on pic
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/baybus_70.jpg
wiring diagrams
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiringt2.php
but both interior lights work on the switch on the lights, not when the door opens.
Make sure the front light has a three position switch. On/Off/On door switch.
If it only has on off. It is not the correct light.
It will look like this with 1 big and 4 small terminals.
Note how the one big terminal IS NOT connected to the side clip.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-211-947-111-B
| Quote: |
| I did replace the flasher switch as it fell apart when removing it from the dash but took pictures prior to make sure I installed it correctly. |
I hope you saved the parts and found the little ball bearing? Pop it back together and put a zip tye around it.
| Quote: |
| I purchase the switch based on the part number from Wolfsburg west. |
The one in your picture looks like the 73-79 111 953 235G and is missing 54 & 54f.
No one I know of stocks the Hazard switch for the 70-72 Bus 211-953-235 A .
Wolfsburg West list a switch for 68-72 Beetle but not for the Bus.
1970-71 note the Black/red wire from "F" (brake light switches) go to 54 on the E-switch (hazard). Then it goes to 54f Black/purple then over to the turn signal switch.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/1970bus_brake.jpg
1972 Note the Black/red wire no longer goes through the E-Switch>
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bus_1972_BrakeLampWiring.jpg
| Quote: |
| That being said, the new switch is missing the 58f terminal like this one. |
It is missing 54&54f. It is not going to work.
| Quote: |
| My old E-switch looked like this |
What is the part number on it?
| Quote: |
| The dash light on the gauge cluster does not go out when the car is on |
What light on the gauge cluster?
To sum it up
Get the correct E-switch or fix yours.
Your brake light do not work, because the E-switch you have does not have a 54&54f terminal.
Spend some time looking at the wiring diagrams
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiringt2.php
Good luck
Tcash |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Lights don't work |
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| Quote: |
| I have been tracing my steps on the build up of my 7/1970 Bus. |
Ok so you have a 1970 bus.
| Quote: |
| Horn does not work and after reading, |
You want to look at the 68-74 stuff
Horn All
| Quote: |
| I do not think I have a door buzzer working. |
Find H5 hazard relay, which plugs into the fuse box.
H5>86>fuse #2
H5>85>F2 door swtch>D ignition switch terminal S
click on pic
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/baybus_70.jpg
wiring diagrams
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiringt2.php
but both interior lights work on the switch on the lights, not when the door opens.
Make sure the front light has a three position switch. On/Off/On door switch.
If it only has on off. It is not the correct light.
It will look like this with 1 big and 4 small terminals.
Note how the one big terminal IS NOT connected to the side clip.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-211-947-111-B
| Quote: |
| I did replace the flasher switch as it fell apart when removing it from the dash but took pictures prior to make sure I installed it correctly. |
I hope you saved the parts and found the little ball bearing? Pop it back together and put a zip tye around it.
| Quote: |
| I purchase the switch based on the part number from Wolfsburg west. |
The one in your picture looks like the 73-79 111 953 235G and is missing 54 & 54f.
No one I know of stocks the correct Hazard switch for the 70-72 Bus 211-953-235 A .
Wolfsburg West list a E-switch for 68-72 Beetle but not for the Bus.
1970-71 note the Black/red wire from "F" (brake light switches) go to 54 on the E-switch (hazard). Then it goes to 54f Black/purple then over to the turn signal switch.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/1970bus_brake.jpg
1972 Note the Black/red wire no longer goes through the E-Switch. So 54&54f are no longer needed.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bus_1972_BrakeLampWiring.jpg
| Quote: |
| That being said, the new switch is missing the 58f terminal like this one. |
It is missing 54&54f. It is not going to work.
| Quote: |
| My old E-switch looked like this |
What is the part number on it?
| Quote: |
| The dash light on the gauge cluster does not go out when the car is on |
What light on the gauge cluster?
To sum it up
Get the correct E-switch or fix yours.
Your brake light do not work, because the E-switch you have does not have a 54&54f terminal.
Spend some time looking at the wiring diagrams
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiringt2.php
Good luck
Tcash |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Lights don't work |
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Red wire goes in the middle.
With the key on connect the black wire to the terminal that turns the light on when you push the red button in the center.
Connect the red to the other.
Tcash
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51112
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Lights don't work |
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What he's trying to say is put the black wire on terminal #15, the red wire on terminal #K and the brown one on #31 
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Lights don't work |
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My mistake, the wiring diagram shows the red in the middle.
You have it right.
Note: you can push the red B button to test the bulb.
Sincerely
Tcash |
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3897
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Lights don't work |
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| Tcash wrote: |
| You have it right. |
Well, not quite. The red and black wires on his warning light photo are reversed from what they should be. That's no doubt why
it's always on when the ignition is on.
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51112
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Lights don't work |
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Brake cleaner, a tooth brush and a magnifying glass will solve the issue in the blink of a squinty eye, the terminal numbers are beside the spades, tiny but there nonetheless.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51112
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Lights don't work |
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| Airkewld wrote: |
| Tcash wrote: |
Note: you can push the red B button to test the bulb.
Sincerely
Tcash |
If I wire it like busdaddy has described, you can push the red button on and the light will come one? |
Yes, that's how you test it. It should also come on if there's a pressure differential between the two brake hydraulic circuits all by itself when you push on the pedal.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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