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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7276 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:11 pm Post subject: Needle Valve Question |
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I got stuck on the side of the road today due to fuel starvation, caused by a stuck needle valve. I can manually cause it to stick by pushing the piston up into the valve, and pop it out w/canned air. Is there a way to fix these once they start sticking or are they junk at that point?
Or - could this be an issue of too low fuel pressure?
Thanks!
Victor _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Needle Valve Question |
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I guess teeing in a gauge would be the first step towards an answer. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Old n' slow Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2012 Posts: 619 Location: Western Maryland
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Needle Valve Question |
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Low fuel pressure shouldn't effect it like that, just the weight of the float should pull the needle valve down & open. _________________ Currently own : 1969 Beetle w/ 1600cc, Single Port, Solex 30 PICT 2, Dist. 113 905 205 T, stock exhaust.
All my daily drivers gone but not forgotten;
1964(sunroof)1967 & (2)1968 Beetles , 1968 Squareback , 1963 (23 window )Deluxe Sunroof Bus , 1969 Westphalia camper, 1974 Dasher , 1985 Vanagon , (2) 1981 Rabbit Diesels & a 1991 Jetta Diesel . |
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Old n' slow Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2012 Posts: 619 Location: Western Maryland
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Needle Valve Question |
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Old n' slow wrote: |
Low fuel pressure shouldn't effect it like that, just the weight of the float should pull the needle valve down & open. |
I take that back, I was thinking about some other carburetters that have the needle valve wired on the float arm.....I believe Solex carb's are free floating needle valves??? Been awhile since I took mine apart. _________________ Currently own : 1969 Beetle w/ 1600cc, Single Port, Solex 30 PICT 2, Dist. 113 905 205 T, stock exhaust.
All my daily drivers gone but not forgotten;
1964(sunroof)1967 & (2)1968 Beetles , 1968 Squareback , 1963 (23 window )Deluxe Sunroof Bus , 1969 Westphalia camper, 1974 Dasher , 1985 Vanagon , (2) 1981 Rabbit Diesels & a 1991 Jetta Diesel . |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13385 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Needle Valve Question |
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The last new rebuild kit I used, I installed the "new" needle valve. MISTAKE.. It stuck open and flooded my engine.
I had a very old used needle valve, may be original in my carb parts. I checked it and it worked smoothly in/out w/out sticking. I've had no issues since installing this old valve.
Just another sad statement about the woeful quality of "new" parts sold today. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11739 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:21 pm Post subject: Re: Needle Valve Question |
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I wonder if something is stuck in the valve, like a tiny bit of rubber hose, or whatever.
Tim at Volkzbitz know which brand to get. Email him and ask.
Damn, Victor, you've been screwed lately.
Keep your chin up.
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7276 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:15 am Post subject: Re: Needle Valve Question |
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Ah no worries. 2 failed aftermarket parts, one bit me because I forgot to renew it when I redid all of the other hoses. Driving it to work today too. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7276 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Needle Valve Question |
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Happened again this evening. I swapped out the carb to one of the VolkzBitz-built ones and continued on my way.
I suppose the needle valve I took off of the spare [EDIT] carbs could also have been bad.... but now I'm concerned. Can a mechanical fuel pump be intermittently bad? can the Bakelite holding the rod expand more with age? it's [EDIT] older than I've owned the car (3.5+ years). _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!
Last edited by vamram on Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11739 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Needle Valve Question |
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Are the days getting hotter there than in the past?
Checking out the flange is easy enough. Just remove the pump and then the rod (first, always, first), then remove the flange.
Let the flange fall back into the hole. If it slides in easily, it's okay--even on a cold engine.
Use new gaskets to re-install everything.
By the way, I think Tim at Volkzbitz uses a rebuild kit from Wagner. I may be wrong, however. And I don't know if the kit comes with a new needle valve, for that matter. Maybe you can shoot him an email and ask him.
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
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williamM Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008 Posts: 4333 Location: southwest Arizona
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:41 am Post subject: Re: Needle Valve Question |
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I've had the parting line gasket cut poorly and the float would hang up on the excess gasket- first bump I hit pulling over to the side of the road freed it up- can imagine how many possibilities there were for that before I found the poorly cut gasket- just trimmed it close on both sided. _________________ some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
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johnnypan Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 7431 Location: sackamenna
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:49 am Post subject: Re: Needle Valve Question |
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take out needle,lay extra fine scotchbite on bench,draw sides of needle across scotchbrite to polish it till it slides in the bore. |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7276 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:12 am Post subject: Re: Needle Valve Question |
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Thanks, I will give it a go. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7276 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: Needle Valve Question |
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Happened again with the VolkzBitz carb, although I was able to keep it running after stumbling for a minute.
I'm pretty sure at this point it has to be an issue with the fuel pump rod and the bakelite piece. Johnnypan - would u agree? _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11739 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Needle Valve Question |
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It could be the rod sticking in the flange after it gets warm. Easy enough to check.
I'm thinking you may have a problem with the pump, though.
Check both.
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9131 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Needle Valve Question |
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If the rod and flange are original to your car and never gave you an issue, I doubt they are causing the problem now, they've been pumping away for years without issue why would they suddenly start?
Personally, I have had to pry more than a few flanges out of cases and the pumps worked fine. And prying an old flange out of the case risks breaking it as they love to stick after being in the engine for years and become brittle. If you really want to check it, get the engine hot and just lift up the pump and see how easy the rods slides
Check your fuel pressure as mentioned above and go from there.
brad |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7276 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Needle Valve Question |
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Thanks all for your input. I will pick up the troubleshooting bright and early tomorrow a.m.
This I not the original pump. It's probably about 2.5 years old. I don't recall if I replaced the pushrod, definitely left the bakelite guide in its place. The factory engine had an AE code this one has an AK engine code which I think is a replacement engine. [EDIT] I have no idea if the bakelite piece is original to the engine. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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adam78 Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2013 Posts: 219 Location: Jersey Shore USA
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Needle Valve Question |
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I had this issue, the needle valve was sticking half open. So it allowed fuel to get into the bowl, but not fast enough if I ran above 45mph. It was a pain to find that culprit! New needle valve fixed it. It's been about 8 months now with no issues, until the other day she acted the same as soon as I tried to leave somewhere with the engine warm. Although it happened twice that week, it hasnt happened again, so I have no idea what this new issue is on my end. _________________ 1975 Beetle 1600dp 4spd Daily Driver.
1972 Westy 1600 Type IV 4spd project/ soon to be driver. |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7276 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Needle Valve Question |
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I thought it was that the 1st time. Then it happened the next day w/the replacement needle valve. Then again today w/a German Solex 34 PICT-4 rebuilt for me by possibly the most skilled carb restorer on the site...each time after the car had been sitting for about 20 minutes after a 20+mile drive in 85*+ weather....it ain't the needle valve. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: Needle Valve Question |
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It's times like this I temporarily install an electric rotary pump in line bypassing the mechanical and drive it for a few days to see if the issue still occurs.
Avoid the noisy clicker pumps unless you have a good fuel pressure regulator to tame it down to a manageble pressure. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10399 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: Needle Valve Question |
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Each time it happened while you were driving? Like the car was actually in motion and then just seemed like it stopped getting fuel and slowed and stalled? _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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