Warm/Hot Start Question

[VWChicky]

Ok guys, I've got a question, so please don't beat me up too bad. This just started with Velvet about 2 months ago, maybe longer because I think it was still pretty cold outside. Anyhow, when I hop in the car in the mornings, turn the key and she fires right up, runs like a top no matter how far I drive her. The problem is this. Say I drive her a few miles or long enough to get good and hot, run in to the store or something for just a few minutes, come back out to start her again, she's a bear to start. I follow the proper procedure for starting when the motor's hot. I slowly press the throttle to the floor and turn the key. She'll start, but it takes about 10 seconds of continuous cranking to get there and when she does fire up, she takes a few seconds of spitting and spattering to get up to par. What gives? Any idea of what I should be looking for as a potential problem?

[Randy in Maine]

Adjust the electric choke.

[VWChicky]

[Mos6502]

Some cars will start easier if you just push the pedal half way. This usually makes for quicker starting in my experience.

[VWChicky]

[Tim Donahoe]

Chicky, I've had this same issue. It's all according to how long I'm in the store, I guess.

If just shopping for a few minutes, I just barely press the gas pedal when I re-start. The instant it starts to start, I give it a just tad more gas. This is on a short stop, and it usually starts immediately.

If I'm doing weekly shopping--maybe a half to 3/4 hour, I first attempt my warm-start procedure ... just barely pressing the pedal. Sometimes it doesn't work, so I floor it and hold the pedal as I turn the key again (like in a hot start situation). Instead of immediately, it takes maybe 3 or 4 seconds of cranking, tops. But this happens rarely.

I've found that a nice tune-up helps a lot when this gets out of hand. Adjust valves, new plugs (if they've been in awhile), check and adjust timing after checking dwell to see if your points are set to specifications. Also, make sure your choke is reset for the summer heat, too. I have to reset my choke for summer, and once for winter.

But if this is a fairly new situation, and it's not a choke issue, maybe it's time for a thorough tune up.

Tim
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Richard O'Brien

[Tim Donahoe]

P.S.

We got the puppy (Rebel) two weeks ago. His brother is Cooper, the pup I showed a year ago in your thread. He looks exactly like Cooper in all respects, but he was on his best behavior the first two days we had him (trying to make a good first impression, I guess), but now he's acting all piss-and-vinegary, just like Cooper.

Maybe we just found them on the wrong side of the tracks.

Tim
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Richard O'Brien

[sb001]

Hey VW Chicky welcome back to the board!

The truth is that lots of folks on this board are having the same issue and no one really knows how to solve it completely:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

Gradually press the pedal down about halfway, turn the key, and while cranking press slowly further down on the pedal. This seems to help for me.
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I'm the humblest guy on this board.

1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor

[Tim Donahoe]

Steve's procedure is proper for a warm start; but on mine when the engine is warm (and I haven't been away too long), I just barely press my pedal. There's a sweet spot on mine that requires just a teensy kiss on the pedal.

On mine, halfway is far too much pedal, I suppose.

Try all the suggestions and see which works best for your bug.

Let us know how things work out.

I forgot to add this in my previous post: I was having a bit of trouble a while back, so I changed my plugs (using NGK B5HS, of course), and that helped out a lot, on top of resetting the choke for summer.

Tim
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Richard O'Brien

[VWChicky]

Thank you all for the information. And yes, this seems to be a common problem with a lot of people. I'm going to check a few things tomorrow evening after work. Velvet had a complete tune up about a week before Christmas, probably 1100 miles ago, plus new plugs, points, cap and rotor button. It's not a horrible problem, just kind of bugs me (pun intended) because in the years that I've owned her, she's never had this issue. Oh well, I'll let you guys know what I come up with.

And Tim, must see pictures of those dogs!

[sjbartnik]

Keep in mind this isn't like a modern car with fuel injection where you don't have to touch the pedal and the computer will figure out exactly what mixture the car needs to start right away.

There are a whole lot of variables in play with these cars with carburetors that all factor into how much (if at all) one should push the pedal when starting hot. Carburetor tune, ignition timing settings, valve adjustment settings, presence of any vacuum leaks, choke adjustment, accelerator pump adjustment, etc etc.

The bottom line is that each car is a little different so you have to first tune everything as close as you can to spec and then after that just sort of find what works for your car. As you come to know your car, you will find just how much pedal it likes in order to start.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[CarlIseminger]

On my '68, the owner manual suggests that as you turn the key for the starter to spin, you slowly depress the gas pedal until it starts, or hold it when it reaches the floor.

Not pressing the pedal and then starting, but as you are trying to start the car, you slowly press down on the pedal. Mine usually starts with a crank or two. And the sometimes, I end up with it all the way to the floor.

But as an earlier poster stated, every car is different depending on wear and the tune of the engine.
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1969 VW Beetle Convertible

[zoobyshoe]

I had the same problem with my '72 standard beetle, and I have managed to solve it.

In my case, not starting after it had been warmed up, lasted about a year until it began to get worse: it slowly became harder and harder to start it even when it was cold.

I pondered many possible causes, mostly focusing on the starter motor or solenoid, and I was getting ready to take those out and look them over, test them outside the car. But it occurred to me I should first make sure the ignition switch was OK.

I read up on how to get to it, and what it looked like, and figured out it isn't the sort of thing you can take apart and clean: too complex. However, it turns out they are cheap as hell: Autozone has a Duralast replacement for $11.99, so I bought one and installed it.

That turned out to have completely solved the problem! I didn't have to move on to investigate anything else. It's been starting great for two months now, even when all warmed up.

So, in my case anyway, this symptom of not starting when the engine is hot, was actually an early warning sign that the ignition switch was going bad.

My theory about what the problem was is this: there is a tab that goes from the lock cylinder into the plastic switch. Turning the key turns the tab, and the tab turns the switch. Over time, the plastic wears away, and the tab cannot turn the switch fully into the engaged position, so the contacts inside the switch don't get firmly pressed together. The wiring is all hot, and has greater resistance, but it isn't getting the benefit of full current: the weak contact in the switch has the effect of a big resistor.

You let that ride long enough (in my case over a year) and the plastic just gets more and more worn till you can't make good contact even when the car is cold.

That's my theory, for what it's worth. In any event, a new switch completely solved the problem. I am SOOO happy I thought to try changing it.

[Tim Donahoe]

But ... check and readjust the choke for summertime, first.

By the way, here's a picture I took today of Cooper and his little brother, Rebel.

Tim
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Richard O'Brien

[Tim Donahoe]

Never mind, apparently the picture was not VW-related and was removed.

Tim
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Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[VWChicky]

[wcfvw69]

[Tim Donahoe]

Thanks, Bill. I can do that, I suppose; but the particular picture I posted here was a great one.

Tim
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Richard O'Brien

[wcfvw69]

[Tim Donahoe]

They're cute all right, but the little one keeps leaking; and I can't figure out how to stop it. .

Tim
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Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien