Sanded Through Clear Coat And Other Issues

[NewTechnicIan]

Hi all,
I got my bug painted over the winter but I was waiting to wet sand it til now, now that the body's been dropped on the pan. The guy who painted it said he put about 3 coats of clear on the thing but now I'm not so sure. Or maybe I royally screwed up. Well I did screw up

I sanded through the clear in some spots and even through color in one spot on the body today and I'm wondering what I need to do to fix this now.

Also, what should I be looking for while I wet sand? If I see the paint color on my sand paper is that already a bad sign?

Thanks all!

Hopefully this shows the issue. Near the drip rails I haven't touched the clear but it's pretty mottled rather than smooth. I was trying to clean it up with 1000 grit and it came out like the middle of the roof. Did I sand too far? Because there's still mottling that's shiny but also dull areas.

Same situation down near my crescent vent. Mottled and dull where I sanded. I actually hit this up with 600 to smooth it out but this being my first time doing it, I may have sanded too long at 600

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My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[beetlenut]

Hey Ian, bummer!
I sanded thru on one spot on my car and have been wondering the best way to deal with that. First off, three coats of clear is not enough. If the color coat was mottled (what's that mean anyway), then should have color sanded before the clear. If not, then you'd need a lot of clear to fill in the low spots of the color, and then more to take the wet sanding process.

I can only speak of my experience, but I kept a small squeegee with me while wet sanding, and when I'd finish an area, I'd squeegee it dry and look for a uniform dullness. You could see the low spots as they would show up as bright "dots". I really don't think you can put too many coats of clear on. The only solution I can think of at this point is to sand down an entire section, put on more color, and clear it with enough coats to take the wet sanding process. Suppose it will also depend how thick the clear is when it's sprayed on. Press on, you've come too far at this point.

Bill
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scrapyards are for quitters
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[Julio_Arcos123]

Were you wet sanding to buff?
If so you usually want to start at 1000 or maybe even 1500 if you dont know how many coats of clear are on it. It also depends on the orange peel on the car and the finish you want. On a show car that has had about 7+ coats of clear they start with 600 or 800 to flatten it completely. 600 is really coarse for clear and will eat it up fast, that may have been your mistake if you started with it. There is a thread here about the color sand and buff process thats pretty good.

When sanding you want to see white foam coming off, it you see color youve gone too far.

On the first pic is that the reflection of the flash or primer?
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64 bug (o\ ! /o)

[NewTechnicIan]

Julio, I was wet sanding to smooth out the "sandy" look to the clear coat. I want to smooth it out. I did start at 600 on one panel and I guess now I know why that was a bad idea
That white on the orange you see is just the reflection of the sun, not primer, thank goodness. the spot I burned through is on the cream part of the car, not the orange.

From doing some further research, I don't think I burned through to color on the orange, just on the white. The dullness of the panels was what worried me but that sounds like it's the finish I'm looking for before buffing and polishing.

I may do a round of 1200 grit on a few separate pieces and take them into the local paint shop to see what they recommend. It might be that I'll need to scuff everything up and put a bunch more clear on it so I can sand it to a nice finish, which I guess isn't the end of the world.
I can spray clear over the slightly spotty surface of old clear coat, right?

I may wait until the car is fully put together and driving to get the white pieces repainted. That way I can drive the car to a shop to get the work done.
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My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[jspbtown]

A sandy finish suggests there was not even clear laid down (not number of coats but volume of clear) and/or the activator was the wrong temp.

Either way you can't sand a sandy finish smooth.

Flatten it all down and re-apply the base and then the clear. Basically any areas like that have to be done the right way.

You sand orange peel to make it smooth...not sandy.

And you can't burn through the clear to the base and just re-clear. The burned area will be very visible if you just re-clear.

[NewTechnicIan]

sandy may have been the wrong word. Refer to the picture near the drip rail for what I'm talking about. It looks too "fine" to be called orange peel but theres definitely a texture to the clear. I'm trying to knock that down and that's when the general orange peel shows, shiny areas of clear in the valleys and duller clear on the peaks.

I'm asking if I can reapply clear over a finish like that when it's all clear coat I'm applying it to, just over varying texture?
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[Julio_Arcos123]

Ok so it was a reflection thats good haha but that some pretty bad overspray or not the best spray on the roof. Does the rest of the car have that sand paper feeling clearcoat?

As long as you dont see the color on the pad/paper you should be good. Be careful either way or youll have to retouch the panel where its sanded through.

Itd be best if you can take off all the shiny spots still on it before you spray more clear over it, you dont want any adhesion problems later on. Have a squeegee or dry durablock to wipe off the panel periodically to check if there are still any spots that need sanding.

If you can, i would just get the hole car re cleared. Idk about the same guy as you might end up with the same situation. Body shops also only put 2 coats of clear on a car unless you ask and pay for more. I put 3 coats of clear on my car but still havent cut and buffed it. Im thinking of sanding it and clearing it a bit more but thats just me, my car is my baby and some times i overreact but i want enough uv protection and a nice finish so i dont want to sand most of the 3 clear coats.
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64 bug (o\ ! /o)

[NewTechnicIan]

Julio,
So is there a way to tell if Im close to burning through to color? You say you're gonna add more clear so you're secure about your paint but how do you sand it down and then respray clear without knowing how deep it really is? Or are you just gonna have to risk burning through or leaving orange peel?

Just trying to learn here, all your advice helps a bunch!
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[jspbtown]

Based on your pictures you need to flatten, respray the base and then the clear.

There is not enough short cuts that will make that paint look presentable IMO.

[NewTechnicIan]

jspbtown, understood. I want to make sure I understand here, what I'm hearing is I need to flatten down the BC/CC, then respray with a quick, dry coat of Base to make sure I cover any areas of burn through, then clear heavy over everything? Or are you saying thick coat of base over everything, then color sand, then clear heavy, then sand?
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[jspbtown]

Yes...flatten down the BC/CC so its dull and no dips or graininess. Just a perfectly flat and smooth surface.

Then 1 or 2 coats of base. Base should never be applied heavy. It should just be applied to assure proper coverage. It should be smooth, flat and dull in appearance.

Then apply your clear. Clear should not be applied "heavy" either. I usually make my first coat a little light and then 2-3 coats "wet". That means as you are applying it the clear looks wet.

You are going to have a tendency to get runs if you are trying to get all your coverage in heavy coats. You will also be risking solvent pop. So make sure you have the right temp activator for the clear and I would suggest you double the flash times.

[NewTechnicIan]

I guess I didn't mean heavy. I've heard that if you have burn through, you want to put a quick coat of paint on that and then add the clear over top and the fresh paint layer ties the old paint and the new clear together well. I've heard that paint layer only needs to be a quick, dry coat, not a full new coat.

It sounds like you're saying go for the same coverage I'd be looking for in a coat of paint over primer, where you do a quick light coat and then a coat "wet" as you say, then when I go for the clear, do a light coat, then a few of normal coverage.

I agree with all the steps, the only confusion I have is how much paint I'm looking to use to tie in the areas where I burned through the clear. A quick dusting to tie the layers together or a whole new layer?

Thanks for all the help, this is my first time with this stuff and I want to get it right so I don't have to touch it for a couple years at least
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[jspbtown]

I am far from a pro but I have burned through the clear to the base and tried many "quick" fixes and none worked. I could always see where I burned through. There was like a halo effect around the area.

You will find that additional coats of base will cover much better on existing base coats then they will in primer. You might need one. You may need two. You might want to spot the area you burnt through and then apply a coat of base over the whole panel. I have never had success with "dry" coats. Its either a light coat (for the first coat over primer) or a regular coat (where you have a wet edge).

For the clear I would use the light coat. It helps the second, heavier coat, to adhere.

And always try to do panels. Or end the pant at natural lines (like where moldings cover) because blending is an art. I have painted maybe a dozen cars and haven't been able to successfully blend anything.

[Julio_Arcos123]

Not really a way to tell but when you wipe the panel you want to see it hazy, you can kind of see the thickness as well. you can see when youve got to the color as it looks a bit brighter.

Yes the way im doing it is basecoat clearcoat then wait a couple days,actually a month or so cuz im lazy, then sand down with 1500 to dull down the car. After that lay another couple coats of clear. This makes the new coats go on slicker and it looks really flat plus the protection.
I sprayed the car myself so i know how heavy i sprayed them. And its 1500 so its not aggressive, youd take a long time sanding through all the clear with 1500.

So like others r saying you need to flatten the sandpaper feel on the car depending on how bad it is id probably do it with 1000 so you dont go through all the clear. If its taking long or if all the clear is like that id try 800 but be careful! Or youll sand through again.

Sand the whole car down to dull, no shiny parts, and flat, no more of that sandy feel.
For the spots you did sand through to color and took some color off youd need to recoat. Not a dusting coat or youll have that sandy feel on the basecoat. As for how much, as much as you need. If it covers thr burn through in 2 coats or if it need more give it more. If you do it yourself i wouldnt try to blend the panel even if its a solid color. Try to spray the whole panel until the spot is covered. Then clear over the whole panel. Dont try to spot in or when you buff itll take off that spot. Clear blending is difficult and not recommended.
Now that youve covered the burn throughs clear the rest of the car.
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64 bug (o\ ! /o)

[NewTechnicIan]

Julio, thanks a lot, thats all exactly what I needed to know for how to proceed and about what I had thought I needed to do at this point.

Thanks for all your help y'all, I guess I'll start in carefully with 1000 grit tonight and see where that gets me! This was why I wanted to build my own project car but man, sometimes it really stinks to learn a lesson instead of just doing it right the first time
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My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[jspbtown]

Its always frustrating learning something new. Especially something as complex as painting a car. Each time I paint I seem to forget all the lessons I learned from the mistakes I made on my past cars.

But in all honesty....whoever painted your car did a terrible job. He did not give you anything you could have corrected. No matter how hard you tried.

[Julio_Arcos123]

Yeah no problem man, you live and you learn. Hope it all goes well from here. If you do it yourself try not to spray the clear too heavy or youll get drips. These cars are pretty hard to paint because of all the curves that go straight down. But also not too fast or youll get more orange peel. Good luck!
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64 bug (o\ ! /o)

[NewTechnicIan]

I'll definitely err on the side of a bunch of light coats rather than a few heavy ones, even if it means a bunch more sanding after I get it on thick.

Julio, how do you mean don't go too fast to prevent orange peel? I don't really know what makes orange peel worse or better.

jspbtown, they may have done an OK job, but of course I started sanding thinking I could just dive in and didn't know what I was doing. I'll see if I take it easy and don't go below 1200 grit, maybe the rest of the car will go ok!

Thanks!
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[Julio_Arcos123]

Well there are various factors when it comes to orange peel. I hate color sanding and buffing it and try to lay it as slick as possible so i found that your speed has a lot to do with how it comes out.

Orange peel is basically the little drops of clear being spread out too far apart when being shot, one reason i dont like doing a first light coat as other people do. When spraying slower or heavier the drops are closer together and flow out more, or flatten out more. The faster you go the less material goes on the panel and the further apart the drops are placed, it might help with solvent pop but it tends to give more orange peel. The type of clear you use also has to do with it, your prep, reducer/temp, and other things as well like gun settings/type.
Spraying is a skill that takes time to learn. A lot of observing others and trial and error.
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64 bug (o\ ! /o)

[jspbtown]

I don't think it was your sanding that was the issue based on the pictures you posted.

Yes...you may have sanded through but there was no way even the best/most experienced sander could have corrected that paint.