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Spike0180 Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015 Posts: 2269 Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:35 pm Post subject: Engine diagnostics request |
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So, here is the engine: 1700cc CB type 4 engine, dual Weber 34ict (assume standard jetting for the carbs, I haven't touched them nor did I install them), 009 distributor, timing at 30°btdc. (Ask if you want any other specs)
Scenario (when at operating temp): runs well for maybe 30 seconds, then once I'm in third gear for a little bit (holding 35mph) it starts to stutter, then I lose a lot of power and have to coast, turn it off and wait for a little bit before starting back up and going through the same process again. I was about to drive a little longer if I was easy on the gas.
Ideas of what could be causing this? _________________ Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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rugblaster Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2016 Posts: 1163 Location: San Angelo, Texas
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Engine diagnostics request |
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Sounds like it is fuel starved......what kind of fuel pump are you using? _________________ '69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)
VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!! |
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Spike0180 Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015 Posts: 2269 Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Engine diagnostics request |
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rugblaster wrote: |
Sounds like it is fuel starved......what kind of fuel pump are you using? |
Unsure, on what it is. Seems to be a aftermarket deal. And it has been getting pretty loud sometimes, then it gets nice and quiet again. Here is a bad picture of it (sorry only one I have). It's mounted to the firewall there. Brass colored and is pretty much a square box with an inlet and outlet.
_________________ Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: Engine diagnostics request |
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Ever pulled the strainer out of the tank outlet? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Spike0180 Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015 Posts: 2269 Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Engine diagnostics request |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Ever pulled the strainer out of the tank outlet? |
The gas tank was supposedly cleaned about 2 years ago. It may have gotten crap in it since then (dust, or other crap) _________________ Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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rugblaster Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2016 Posts: 1163 Location: San Angelo, Texas
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Engine diagnostics request |
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Those use to be called a Facet pump.....just a small electric pump. Pull the fuel line from one carb and measure how much fuel it is pumping (with the pump running) You should get 300 to 400 cc's in a minute. That is about a beer can full.
If you aren't getting that much flow, do what Busdaddy said to do.....there is a strainer on the fitting coming out of the tank (inside the tank) _________________ '69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)
VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!! |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13385 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: Engine diagnostics request |
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Is there possibly a fuel filter between the fuel tank and the fuel pump under the bus that could be clogged as well? _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**
Last edited by wcfvw69 on Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jpaull Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 3456 Location: Paradise, Ca
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: Engine diagnostics request |
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My guess is the coil. They do that exact thing you described. Soon as they get warm they start stuttering like your saying. Shut it off and coil cools, and will work for awhile again.
got another coil? Give it a try, easy swap. _________________ [email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:36 pm Post subject: Re: Engine diagnostics request |
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If it started doing this with the warm days then I would think it's vapor locking. Electric Fuel pump should fix that. Or does it already have an electric fuel pump? Mount it near the tank where it is cool. Did you use seal around that 1700 engine to keep the hot air out of your engine compartment? _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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Spike0180 Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015 Posts: 2269 Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Engine diagnostics request |
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Alright, lots to answer.
Fuel filter, yes there is one, no it isn't very clean, yes I'll change that first. (I have new filters already)
Then I'll try pulling the fuel lines off the pump and make sure it is pumping about a beer can a minute. If it isn't, can those be cleaned or do I have just have to get a new fuel pump? If so, suggestions on a good deal for my money?
The tank strainer, I also think is pretty clean. When I took the fuel line off the fuel filter it was spraying good. I think it will be down stream of the tank.
I do not have a new coil, so I'll check this last. Suggestions on a place to get a good coil? Will an auto parts store have one? Or will I need to order one online?
And thank you all for your input. I really appreciate it. _________________ Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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mcmscott Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010 Posts: 4848 Location: sanger ca
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Engine diagnostics request |
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When a facet pump gets loud it is starving for fuel. So I would say there is some type of restriction before the pump, or you are running out of gas _________________ There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Engine diagnostics request |
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The fuel pump needs to be under the car where it's cool, not mounted in the engine compartment. But if you could find ethanol free gas it should clear up the problem. _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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borninabus Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4532 Location: Arizona Highways
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:36 am Post subject: Re: Engine diagnostics request |
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Danwvw wrote: |
The fuel pump needs to be under the car where it's cool, not mounted in the engine compartment. But if you could find ethanol free gas it should clear up the problem. |
AND it needs to be properly wired with a relay so that it only pumps when the starter is operated and then while the engine is running.
this is probably the most common saftey issue i see an nearly all carbed T4 buses. _________________ 71 Ghia A/S - 88 Van A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T |
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Spike0180 Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015 Posts: 2269 Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Engine diagnostics request |
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borninabus wrote: |
Danwvw wrote: |
The fuel pump needs to be under the car where it's cool, not mounted in the engine compartment. But if you could find ethanol free gas it should clear up the problem. |
AND it needs to be properly wired with a relay so that it only pumps when the starter is operated and then while the engine is running.
this is probably the most common saftey issue i see an nearly all carbed T4 buses. |
Yes, I do not have a relay. I have just been aware of it so far and will look into that correction soon. Maybe now.
How will the ethanol free gas help? I'm running 93 octane, but it has ethanol. _________________ Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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Spike0180 Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015 Posts: 2269 Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Engine diagnostics request |
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mcmscott wrote: |
When a facet pump gets loud it is starving for fuel. So I would say there is some type of restriction before the pump, or you are running out of gas |
Would this potentially be from say a leak in my fuel line draining my fuel filter out? (This is one thing I think it may be.) _________________ Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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mcmscott Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010 Posts: 4848 Location: sanger ca
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: Engine diagnostics request |
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Spike0180 wrote: |
mcmscott wrote: |
When a facet pump gets loud it is starving for fuel. So I would say there is some type of restriction before the pump, or you are running out of gas |
Would this potentially be from say a leak in my fuel line draining my fuel filter out? (This is one thing I think it may be.) |
Really? Are you actually that,,,,,,,,,,,,, not smart enough to figure this out?
"leak in my fuel line"
"why does my car run bad" Whatever
Gotta love the typical vw person, my dog has a higher IQ _________________ There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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Spike0180 Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015 Posts: 2269 Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Engine diagnostics request |
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mcmscott wrote: |
Spike0180 wrote: |
mcmscott wrote: |
When a facet pump gets loud it is starving for fuel. So I would say there is some type of restriction before the pump, or you are running out of gas |
Would this potentially be from say a leak in my fuel line draining my fuel filter out? (This is one thing I think it may be.) |
Really? Are you actually that,,,,,,,,,,,,, not smart enough to figure this out?
"leak in my fuel line"
"why does my car run bad" Whatever
Gotta love the typical vw person, my dog has a higher IQ |
I'm talking a drop or two a night, and if your dog has my IQ and you haven't made him a star yet, I guess we've found a reason for business schools. _________________ Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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mcmscott Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010 Posts: 4848 Location: sanger ca
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Engine diagnostics request |
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Spike0180 wrote: |
mcmscott wrote: |
Spike0180 wrote: |
mcmscott wrote: |
When a facet pump gets loud it is starving for fuel. So I would say there is some type of restriction before the pump, or you are running out of gas |
Would this potentially be from say a leak in my fuel line draining my fuel filter out? (This is one thing I think it may be.) |
Really? Are you actually that,,,,,,,,,,,,, not smart enough to figure this out?
"leak in my fuel line"
"why does my car run bad" Whatever
Gotta love the typical vw person, my dog has a higher IQ |
I'm talking a drop or two a night, and if your dog has my IQ and you haven't made him a star yet, I guess we've found a reason for business schools. |
A fuel leak is a fuel leak, doesn't matter if it is a drop or a gush, a fuel leak is a fuel leak.....Even my dumb dog knows this _________________ There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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Spike0180 Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015 Posts: 2269 Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Engine diagnostics request |
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Thank you everyone for your help, I'll let you know if it ends up being fuel starvation tomorrow night.
And for everyone's entertainment, this is all this reminds me of: https://www.google.com/search?q=dick+from+the+inte...IIUTAUM%3A _________________ Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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rugblaster Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2016 Posts: 1163 Location: San Angelo, Texas
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Engine diagnostics request |
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"Anyone can own a dog,
but only love will make him wag his tail."-------Kinky Friedman, Kerrville, Texas _________________ '69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)
VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!! |
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