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Unusual brake wear
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Brezelfahrer
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:06 am    Post subject: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

Hello everyone

yesterday I was restoring the rear brakes on my european standard.
At first all linings seemed to be fine, but then I saw this unusual wear on one side underneath. The lining was almost completely worn.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Was it a bad assembly or what?
Just to avoid the same mistake as I want to obtain the best brakeperformance Cool
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

That shoe is not auto-centering on the circumference of the drum. It should be able to slip vertically up and down without much interference. Look for gouging, burrs in the shoe flange, crossbars and adjustment stars. Also look a the slope/slant in the groove base on the adjustment stars. The have to go the right way.
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nlorntson
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

You need to tighten up the cable where it goes into the backing plate and back off of the adjusting bolt.

Read up on the proper brake adjusting for cable brakes.

It's that single two click adjustment I love about the brakes on our 49. Smile

But you do have to adjust up the cable occasionally and back off on the adjuster bolt.
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

While adjustment's are important that's not going to fix it. It took me years of owning old Bugs before I figured this one out. Actually a VW Bug Mechanic in Iowa solved the issue. My 67 would always ware out the lead shoe first! Anyone else know why? It should be common brake shoe ware knowledge. Most that know it are gone now. Anyone know why? I will answer it shortly if not.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

They are servo-action, meaning that the rear shoe forces the front shoe harder up against the drum when rotating forwards. Hence the extra wear on the forward shoe.

Unequal lining wear between the leading and trailing ends of a shoe also be the result of weak return springs or an out-of-arc brake shoe.
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

Sounds like good information but that is not what is wrong with his rear brakes! Something very specific and simple is causing it to ware the lead shoe like that.
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usariemen
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

Danwvw wrote:
Sounds like good information but that is not what is wrong with his rear brakes! Something very specific and simple is causing it to ware the lead shoe like that.


Just tell it or get lost.
Your little quiz show wont help.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

I PM'ed the answer to the OP earlier so he knows what do do to fix it.

I was hoping others would know the answer but probably no one is looking at this post except us monkeys.
Actually "nlorntson" is explaining the technology of the shoe brakes but what is causing the un even shoe ware is simple.

The wheel bearing is worn out and or the axle tube that holds the wheel bearing does not hold it tightly. There may be too much play in the bearing. The bearing may move inside it's flange.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

Thanks for spitting that out Dan. Next time try being helpful from the beginning
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

Danwvw wrote:
There may be too much play in the bearing.


There would have to be a lot play in the bearing to cause something like that. IŽd expect some running noise and probably oil leaking going along with that.
I am more with John. The shoe has to be able to move freely up and down to center itself in the drum. I would check if it does not stuck uncentered for some reason.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

I too highly doubt that it is a worn bearing. It were, you's see asymmetrical wear on the other shoe as well.
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Brezelfahrer
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

Thanks for all the good advice, first of all.
Tomorrow I will put the new linings on, and start the assembly.
All parts are degreased, sanded and rusted parts are painted.

I never did any adjustments on these brakes, as I have driven it as it was when I bought it, and the braketest revealed an equal brakeperformance for the rear.

The linings on the brakes in the front where broken near the rivets, and I have changed them as they had a difference in brakeperformance of over 30%.

Probably the good cleaning, and a proper adjustment based on the documentary of Nancy (thanks again Nancy for that comprehensive piece of vademecum) like I did the front brakes before, will give much better results!

I will keep you updated on the brakerestoration!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

Brezelfahrer wrote:

I never did any adjustments on these brakes, as I have driven it as it was when I bought it, and the braketest revealed an equal brakeperformance for the rear.



Just curious how you tested just the rear braking performance?
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Kjell Roar
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

nlorntson wrote:
Brezelfahrer wrote:

I never did any adjustments on these brakes, as I have driven it as it was when I bought it, and the braketest revealed an equal brakeperformance for the rear.



Just curious how you tested just the rear braking performance?


I usually test it on gravel roads.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

nlorntson wrote:
Brezelfahrer wrote:

I never did any adjustments on these brakes, as I have driven it as it was when I bought it, and the braketest revealed an equal brakeperformance for the rear.



Just curious how you tested just the rear braking performance?


I think he means the brake test at the Technical Inspection Agency? They always test the effect on brakes on each axle. So they came to the state that the front brakes "... had a difference in brakeperformance of over 30%."


Last edited by pastellgreen on Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Brezelfahrer
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:06 am    Post subject: Re: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

Yes, it was at the technical inspection.
Altough the front brakes were faulty, I passed the Inspection.

"Yes Sir, I will take care of a proper adjustment of the front brakes!!"
Normally, one has to come back in two weeks at the latest.
But apparently this Inspector was in a good mood Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

Kjell Roar wrote:
nlorntson wrote:
Brezelfahrer wrote:

I never did any adjustments on these brakes, as I have driven it as it was when I bought it, and the braketest revealed an equal brakeperformance for the rear.



Just curious how you tested just the rear braking performance?


I usually test it on gravel roads.


....u turns Very Happy....use e-brake only Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

With cable brakes, both the foot pedal and the e-brake activate all four brakes all the time so I was wondering how you could tell if the braking of the front was different from the rear.

Side to side differences it pulls like mad, but front to rear?
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pastellgreen
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

In Germany f.e. we have two rolls in one line installed into the floor, each roll for each wheel of one axle. These rolls are driven by an engine and drive the two wheels of one axle, the one you want to test. You can not test both axles at the same time. During operation, the examinant presses the brake pedal and these rolls are trying to drive the wheels further. But as the brakes of the car are working more and more (till blockade), the wheels give the braking force back to the rolls in the floor that are able to measure this force that will be monitored at the same time on a very big monitor, showing the work of each brake seperatly. If the difference of the two brakes of one axle is too big, you car does not pass the technical inspection. They often beginn with the front axle, then testing the rear axle, then testing the handbrake (e-brake). Measuring the braking via pedal at a standard should not make a difference to a normal hydraulic brake regarding the kind of function, only the media is another one.

After you can compare the results of the front axle to the results of the rear axle, but I think that was not a matter of Brezelfahrer?
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Brezelfahrer
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: Unusual brake wear Reply with quote

Yes Nico that's correct.
they examin front and rear axle separately till blockade in a floor installation.
front was unequal so I had to calibrate it, rear was equal thus no problem.
Altough they measure the force of the brake, it is not that what counts.
They can brake very weak till blockade, as long as the brake equally, there is no problem.

I once went the technical inspection in 2002 with my 1987 passat syncro permanent fourwheel drive, and had to change the lane of inspection to be able to check the brake performance on a special 4x4 brake They had never seen a non-SUV with permanent 4 by 4, except for some Audi's
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