New Motor Noises (Long)

[PatsGhia]

I've built a few VW motors in the last 30 years, but I'm stumped on the sounds I'm hearing on the latest I built for my Ghia. So I turn to you all for some fresh ears. The motor specs:

New Brazil case, reground stock VW crank, rebuilt stock VW rods, used low-mile 87mm KS pistons/cylinders, CB 2280 cam, Brazil lifters from CB, stock rockers, stock push rods (9mm), rebuilt 040 heads with HD single springs, CB filter pump w/ Wix filter. Deck height: cyls. 1,2,4 = 0.063", cyl. 3 = 0.069".

Ran the motor at approx. 2000 RPM for 20 minutes to break-in the cam, then changed the oil/filter - no unusual amount of metal in the oil.

Here's a video of the motor running:


Link


Here's what I've tried, with NO change in the sound:

- Run without the alt/fan
- Run without the fuel pump
- Pulled each plug wire one at a time
- Adjusted valves at TDCs - 0.004" intake, 0.006" exhaust
- Adjusted valves opposite from max lift valve @ 0.006"
- Stock rocker shaft setup
- Solid rocker shafts (CB) w/ approx. 0.003" side play per rocker
- Push in clutch pedal

Have also checked:

- Stethoscope on engine shows noise loudest at the rocker covers
- Crank end-play still good (approx. 0.004")
- Cam gear bolts all tight
- Cam end-play still good
- Brass dist. drive gear good
- No exhaust leaks
- Cylinder leakdowns all 2% or less
- No bent pushrods
- Oil pressure at idle: 40 psi cold, 15 psi warm (VR1 10w-30)

I'm wondering if this noise can be from some sticking intake valves. I ask because I pulled the valves after the heads were rebuilt to check everything out. The intake valves only had around 0.001" to 0.0015" clearance to the guides (new valves/guides). I figured since they were rebuilt by a well-respected shop, they know what they're doing and ran them as-is.

Anyway, I would really appreciate some help on this one...

[raul arrese]

does the motor make noise when you first start it or after warm ??
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[mark tucker]

adjust the valves using the preeload method, move the pully tin away from the rear of the pully. look for pushrod to pushrod tube clearance issues. look for head studs contacting any rockers. recheck side clearance. look at geo .check to see if the pushrods&rocker cups are interfearing with each other if using oe style pushrods

[PatsGhia]

[Dougy Dee]

Curious about the mismatched 3-4 side DH.
Is #3 cylinder higher than #4?
How did you get that to seal to the head?
Was the top of #3 cut?

To me the noise seems exhaust related.

[Type 5 Joe]

Sounds like the piston is hitting the head slightly.

[modok]

sounds like a diesel, so, ah, I'll guess it has something to do with a piston

[Brian]

[raul arrese]

[yamaducci]

Not necessarily. Was it set wrong to begin with? Are you experienced with adjusting valves? What is the lash set to?

Edit: I see that you have them at .004 and .006. Check them again to see if they are still there and check to make sure the rockers aren't hitting the covers or if you have too much side play. What the heck; just run them with no valve covers.
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[PatsGhia]

Tore the engine apart and found out that the cam ate into the thrust bearing, leaving the end-play at 0.013" - I set it at 0.002" on build. I'm pretty sure this is what was making the noise at low RPM. I guess I didn't do a good job of checking the end-play in the car.

On further inspection, the part of the cam that ate the bearing was rough, so I'll have to smooth it out. Everything else looks good. I'll report back whether this was the problem.

[modok]

A lot of people make that mistake, it does not usually make any noise.

[richparker]

I recently had a Engle 110 eat into the thrust face of the bearing. That engine made a low knocking noise for 45-60 seconds after a cold start.
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[PatsGhia]

Put in new cam bearings (double thrust to be safe), and the engine sounds normal now thankfully! The thrust surface on the gear side of the cam was parkerized, so I smoothed that out. To future aftermarket cam users, check out those thrust surfaces!

[Frank Bassman]

Hm, I made the mistake once of setting the valves thinking I was on #1 rather than 3. So I adjusted #1 but the motor was really on #3 TDC. And followed the consequent sequence.

Sounded like a diesel. Ran fine though. When I realized the mistake I made I re adjusted and the engine sounded like the good little sewing machine it was supposed to be.

Any chance that is what happened, and when you split the case you put it back and adjusted correctly the second time? It happens!

I DOUBT the changing of cam bearings was what fixed it. Either way congrats on getting it properly done.

-Frank