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arizonabuckeye Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2013 Posts: 544 Location: SLC
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:11 pm Post subject: running after ignition turned off - possible relay problem? |
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Fires up nice and runs fine. When I turn off ignition it keeps running like nothing happened. When I pull the power from a Bosch relay to my MSD 6AN box it kills it. I checked the relay and it works fine without the car running - ~12 volts to the MSD with key on none with it off.
Have you guys heard of these sticking on in different circumstances? Like it functions fine without the car running but sticks with it on?
And to save the bother... I have the relay (instead of running the MSD straight from the ignition) because it also powers an external oil cooler. |
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Chip Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2008 Posts: 968 Location: Utah
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TinCanFab Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 2743 Location: Waterford, California
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: running after ignition turned off - possible relay problem? |
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Your MSD should have come with a resister in the kit. Wire it inline with your warning light wire at the alternator. The CDI box is getting back feed through that wire and keeping the spark going to the plugs. The MSD instructions have a section that talks about it. I just did this job on my bus 2 months ago _________________ Check out my truck brought back from the dead... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=420762&highlight=sprayed+blood
They're never really ever finished 58 rag build...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=658092 |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2234 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: running after ignition turned off - possible relay problem? |
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Good information for those of us who may not have purchased their MSD knew in box.
Rev. _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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arizonabuckeye Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2013 Posts: 544 Location: SLC
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: running after ignition turned off - possible relay problem? |
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So glad I didn't just swap out the relay thinking it was toast. I'll have to check into it more. The MSD is from the PO so I will have to check and see if it was done. |
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tattooed_pariah Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2006 Posts: 2047 Location: El Cajon, CA
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: running after ignition turned off - possible relay problem? |
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In the meantime, I've found that tapping the brakes draws enough power to the brake lights to stop the flow and kill the engine with mine..
Nowadays about 95% of the time it shuts off with the key, the other 5%, a quick brake tap does the trick.. _________________ -pariah (just a novice from "that other VW site")
'72 Volksrod "Effigy"
"Never worry about stepping on people's toes. People who get their toes stepped on are either sitting down, or standing still on the job."
-Admiral Arleigh Burke, USN(ret.) |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: running after ignition turned off - possible relay problem? |
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Radio Shack diode 2 @$1.99 ...
https://www.radioshack.com/products/3-amp-400v-diodes?variant=5717579653
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
Last edited by Dale M. on Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: running after ignition turned off - possible relay problem? |
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tattooed_pariah wrote: |
In the meantime, I've found that tapping the brakes draws enough power to the brake lights to stop the flow and kill the engine with mine..
Nowadays about 95% of the time it shuts off with the key, the other 5%, a quick brake tap does the trick.. |
Add a diode and never have to tap brakes again...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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arizonabuckeye Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2013 Posts: 544 Location: SLC
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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:49 pm Post subject: Re: running after ignition turned off - possible relay problem? |
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Would swapping the distributor bulb for an LED do the trick? |
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Drewmon Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2016 Posts: 226 Location: Maine
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:56 am Post subject: Re: running after ignition turned off - possible relay problem? |
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HOLY CRAP....
I've been trying to fight this issue for 2 months. I too have this same issue with my 66 (with MSD). I've just got so use to pushing the brake to stop the motor. I'll have to look into this ASAP. I'm so glad this topic resurfaced.
Does anyone know the resistor values or diode part number? |
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Bashr52 Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2006 Posts: 5666 Location: On an island in VA
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:03 am Post subject: Re: running after ignition turned off - possible relay problem? |
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arizonabuckeye wrote: |
Would swapping the distributor bulb for an LED do the trick? |
Nope, may even make it worse (eliminate the ability to stop with brake tap) since LED's need less current to illuminate than a comparable incandescent. |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:08 am Post subject: Re: running after ignition turned off - possible relay problem? |
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Bashr52 wrote: |
arizonabuckeye wrote: |
Would swapping the distributor bulb for an LED do the trick? |
Nope, may even make it worse (eliminate the ability to stop with brake tap) since LED's need less current to illuminate than a comparable incandescent. |
Its the amount of current flow through incandescent bulb which is causes run on problem which more than a actual led will allow, problem with trying to use LED is it needs more circuitry to work as a ALT/GEN lamp indicator, the additional resistor in LED circuit then causes the run on problem problem because if increased current flow though resistor... The actually LED only illuminates because of current/voltage change across resistor...
This circuitry needed to use LED as ALT/GEN idot lamp...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003 Posts: 4863 Location: Harmony, PA
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: running after ignition turned off - possible relay problem? |
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Drewmon wrote: |
Does anyone know the resistor values or diode part number? |
Radio Shack # 276-1103 |
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Drewmon Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2016 Posts: 226 Location: Maine
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:07 am Post subject: Re: running after ignition turned off - possible relay problem? |
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I looked through the MSD box and found the diode. I made a pigtail to attach to the Alt light (Had to wire the diode backwards because of the -/+ being reversed in the light cluster) and hooked it up. Now the VW actually turns off when turning the key off.
Thank you everyone. I thought the switch in my column was bad. |
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arizonabuckeye Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2013 Posts: 544 Location: SLC
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:53 am Post subject: Re: running after ignition turned off - possible relay problem? |
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Drewmon wrote: |
I looked through the MSD box and found the diode. I made a pigtail to attach to the Alt light (Had to wire the diode backwards because of the -/+ being reversed in the light cluster) and hooked it up. Now the VW actually turns off when turning the key off.
Thank you everyone. I thought the switch in my column was bad. |
This is my project for the weekend. Any pics? |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2234 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: running after ignition turned off - possible relay problem? |
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Have 74 super with external regulator:
Any reason the diode could not be inserted at the regulator side of the D+?
For those of use without any radio shack, any place carrying a 3v 50 will do?
Any suggestions? _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: running after ignition turned off - possible relay problem? |
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If you have run on with external regulator diode may fix, but wont hurt anything...
No Radio Shack?... Try local auto alarm/stereo store, ask for "blocking diode"....
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2234 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: running after ignition turned off - possible relay problem? |
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So shouldn't need a diode with an external regulator?
Radio shack went out of business here. _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: running after ignition turned off - possible relay problem? |
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Have not heard of using diode on external regulator, but there is always a first.....
Stat it up, shut it off with key, if you have run on, pull wire off terminal 61 of regulator, if it dies, add diode, if it continues to run, problem is else where..
Yep most RS stores are closing, guess mother company is not surviving bankruptcy...... Sears/Kmart is next in line to close many stores....
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
Last edited by Dale M. on Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:53 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2234 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: running after ignition turned off - possible relay problem? |
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Thanks, Dale. Appreciate the help.
Rev. _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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