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ALB
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Joined: August 05, 2008
Posts: 3483
Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
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 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:41 am Post subject: Re: oil temp on new build |
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| 67vwcruising wrote: |
| ...The only tin piece I don't have is the Hoover bit. My parts guy and the local vw performance shop both said they don't see a difference wit or without it. |
When you think of how much money VW spent developing the doghouse shroud and associated parts (reportedly over $1,000,000 in the late '60's), know that an auto manufacturer doesn't include parts that don't do anything (that just eats into the bottom line), and take a moment to examine what the Hoover bit does (John's words "forces air to go through the cooler and not around it" say it best) you'll realize how observant your local parts guy really is.
Lots of guys in this industry/hobby think "it runs fine, so it must be good" without putting in the time and energy to measure running conditions before and after. At the very least you need oil and head temps to tell what's going on, and it doesn't sound like the local performance shop bothers to delve that deeply into the situation. If they were to actually compare oil and head temps with and without the Hoover bit, I think they'd see that it matters. Only a few degrees (which is why they'll never be able to tell by staring at it, since that seems to be the limit of a lot of people's investigative ability in this hobby), but again, as John said, "a few degrees here, a few degrees there". It's all in the details.
PS- if you look at it from the standpoint of that's what it took a stock 1600 to survive, now you've modified it by building it bigger and more powerful (creating even more heat to deal with) and you're going to leave cooling pieces out? I don't see the logic...
As usual, just my 2 1/2 cents (I'm Canadian, eh). Al
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67vwcruising
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Joined: March 31, 2015
Posts: 127
Location: Carson City NV
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: oil temp on new build |
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ok heres a pic of the engine bay
I finally got a chance to pull the plugs after driving at temp and cutting the engine at 2800 rpm.
The left side is #4 and the right is #2
After noticing that the #2 plug looked hotter I quadruple checked my linkage and noticed that at full throttle the passenger carb was an 1/8th inch off the stop.
I got that sorted and and going to see if it made a difference, if it does I'll fell like an idiot. |
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[email protected]
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Joined: August 03, 2002
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: oil temp on new build |
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you have all the tin, but you have at least 1 gaping hole with missing #$)*#&)& in it. Your breather hose is dropped through one of them. That mistake alone is worth 15F. Your generator is also mis-clocked by 90 degrees, so it's overheating too.
Did any of your local "experts" not mention these mistakes when they saw your engine?
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67vwcruising
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Joined: March 31, 2015
Posts: 127
Location: Carson City NV
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: oil temp on new build |
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I'm not sure i understand how the distributor is overheating.
Is there any way to correct this?
As far as the hole in the tin there is one on the other side as well. Maybe that's why the standoffs helped?
As far as driving after i fixed the linkage;
In 85 deg weather with a pretty decent wind after 30 min at 65 mph the oil temp leveled out at 210.
As the hwy ended back in town i got stuck in traffic and the temp went up to 220.
Once i got back to consistent city speeds it dropped to 210 again.
I think that those temps are OK but I think that i can do even better with the linkage. Its still a little sloppy. I still have a noticeable flat spot between 2300-2600 rpm. I still need to add the balance tube between carbs, would that help? I've gotten consistently opposing views on the balance tube but I'm going to run it
I also am going to get the hoover bit installed. Guess i gotta drop the motor again  |
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[email protected]
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: oil temp on new build |
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you NEED to close all gaps and holes in the rear tin. The hot air that just cooled off your engine is coming up through those holes/gaps, and the cooling fan is trying to use it to cool your engine. 110F air cools a lot better than 190F air.
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67vwcruising
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Joined: March 31, 2015
Posts: 127
Location: Carson City NV
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: oil temp on new build |
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| I just got done covering the holes with some metal tape until I can rig up something better |
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vamram 
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Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: oil temp on new build |
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| 67vwcruising wrote: |
| I just got done covering the holes with some metal tape until I can rig up something better |
That's not going to hold with the heat. Take tin can tops and jb-weld them into place.
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jason
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Location: Garage
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: oil temp on new build |
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Not too many variables? Fix what's wrong and temps go down, why would I care what the exact issue was. They were all issues. Hoover bit needs to be there. I changed the oil and springs to get the pressure where it needs to be. Thick oil removes heat better but bypasses the cooler, thin oil goes through the cooler. I know which one I want. Need to get pressure where it is supposed to be first with oil viscosity then worry about bandaid pulleys. Your generator is clocked wrong, needs to turn to the right. There is a cooling hole in the tin that needs to point the correct way for generator cooling. Be careful with aftermarket tin, it doesn't have the clocking tab and the tin can be put in upside down. Also your distributor is clocked wrong.
Also do you have sled tins? When at speed on the freeway underneath the car is a high pressure area. Air off motor is low pressure and can't get into it causing higher temps at speed. Sled tins will help. Up to around 45mph if I remember correct is ok without. This is in a full body sedan, open engines are different.
Tape should be ok temporarily to keep the air out. I use it to seal the back of the fan shroud and it stays put. |
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67vwcruising
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Joined: March 31, 2015
Posts: 127
Location: Carson City NV
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: oil temp on new build |
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I do have the sled tins.
I didn't know that the generator needed to be a certain way. What difference will it make? |
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67vwcruising
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Joined: March 31, 2015
Posts: 127
Location: Carson City NV
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: oil temp on new build |
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| 67vwcruising wrote: |
I do have the sled tins.
I didn't know that the generator needed to be a certain way. What difference will it make? |
.
I just comprehended the fact that the generator needs to cool. |
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74 Thing
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:12 pm Post subject: Re: oil temp on new build |
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You can go to your hardware store and look in the plumbing section and get a mechanical plug (It drops in your rear tin holes and when you tighten the wing nut the rubber expands and seals the hole).
Put in your hoover bit, change your oil, then change that lower crankshaft pulley to a 7" pulley since yours is 6 3/4" and put on a smaller belt so your fan turns faster. |
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Lingwendil
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SBD
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Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:39 am Post subject: Re: oil temp on new build |
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| vamram wrote: |
| 67vwcruising wrote: |
| I just got done covering the holes with some metal tape until I can rig up something better |
That's not going to hold with the heat. Take tin can tops and jb-weld them into place. |
I've been using aluminum tape to plug that hole on my tin for at least a couple of years now and it's staying put just fine. 
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| mark tucker wrote: |
| I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it. |
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PumaVW79
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Joined: January 31, 2012
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Location: WGS84: 22.9083° S, 43.1964° W
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: oil temp on new build |
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| When rebuilding the engine, did you check the clearance for the crankshaft end-play after the final torque of the gland nut? |
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vugbug68
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Joined: June 25, 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: oil temp on new build |
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with dual carbs its easy to rotate the generator 90* to the right, just remove the 4 screws, the belt and loosen the clamp.
it sounds like your temps are better now, hows your pressure?
Also the balance tube is there to smooth out the idle, single throat dual carbs idle rougher. With a crappy linkage you need a balance tube, but above 2000 rpm there isn't much difference.
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67vwcruising
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Joined: March 31, 2015
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Location: Carson City NV
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: oil temp on new build |
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Yes after the final torque the crankshaft end play was .003
oil pressures are fine @220deg idle is 25lbs and 3000 rpm almost 40 lbs |
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[email protected]
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Joined: August 03, 2002
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: oil temp on new build |
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what is oil pressure at 3500 hot? 4k?
| 67vwcruising wrote: |
oil pressures are fine @220deg idle is 25lbs and 3000 rpm almost 40 lbs |
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It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
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67vwcruising
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Joined: March 31, 2015
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Location: Carson City NV
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: oil temp on new build |
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| What n hot oil pressure holds 40psi over 3000 rpm. |
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PumaVW79
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:41 am Post subject: Re: oil temp on new build |
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| 67vwcruising wrote: |
I'm not sure i understand how the distributor is overheating.
Is there any way to correct this? |
There is a small hole for lubrication on the "leg" of the distributor. This hole needs to coincide with a window located in the side of the opening for the distributor, in the case. |
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[email protected]
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:19 am Post subject: Re: oil temp on new build |
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you didn't answer my question. The reason I ask is that if hot pressure EXCEEDS 45psi, the cooler can be bypassed and oil temps rocket up.
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Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
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