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johnnypan Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 7431 Location: sackamenna
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:02 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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wcfvw69 wrote: |
jwp67 wrote: |
sb001 wrote: |
Please don't take your frustrations at not being able to come up with the solution to my issue yet out on me or my thread. |
Just -wow. |
Well stated. |
maybe I have this whole thing wrong,its not about having a good running dependable car,its about having issues. |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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jwp67 wrote: |
sb001 wrote: |
Please don't take your frustrations at not being able to come up with the solution to my issue yet out on me or my thread. |
Just -wow. |
What did you expect, they chastize me for not trying their suggestions like I'm intentionally avoiding them, when I just simply haven't had a chance yet.
Patience my young apprentice... _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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kwest69 Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2013 Posts: 8 Location: Edmonton, Alberta
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Can't you isolate a vacuum problem with the auto-stick system by doing the following?:
- get it warmed up, do your left-turn trick until it idles poorly.
- now disconnect the big auto-stick vacuum hose from the inlet manifold. Plug both sides of the hose (obviously to the inlet manifold, also to the auto-stick control system just in case..). I suspect that you can disconnect the auto-stick system like this to isolate it, can't you?
Now see if the car idles any differently. If so: wouldn't that point to the auto-stick control valve issue that Johnny suggested? If the valve is leaking when warm then you've got a big problem..
OR similar to the above: just tee-in a connection for a vacuum gauge off of your new vacuum line to the valve. How does the vacuum read when the car is behaving vs naughty? If vacuum reading is much different when moderately-warm vs really warm then you've got a vacuum leak problem to sort out.
HTH,
Kent
PS: wish I'd done those tests on my car a number of years ago! Would've saved me from ripping the auto-stick out.. |
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Dwayne1m Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2011 Posts: 3538 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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There are no vent louvers in your deck lid. Is that normal for the year of this car?
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11740 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Is that Steve's deck lid?
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
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Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5366 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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From looking at the pics in his gallery... yes it is. _________________ Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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jwp67 Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2012 Posts: 657
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Dwayne1m wrote: |
There are no vent louvers in your deck lid. Is that normal for the year of this car?
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Yes, but a 1600 single port isn't. It wouldn't hurt to throw a 70 engine lid on it.
Or a tennis ball |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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I tried the tennis ball trick driving to work and back this afternoon.
It did not seem to make all that much of a difference. Engine bay was still pretty hot to touch anything upon arriving back home.
HOWEVER...
When I measured the oil temp the other day after driving home, the needle stopped at 220 which was the highest reading on the gauge:
I thought the thermometer had simply pegged out and my oil temps were probably hotter than that. But a friend suggested that the needle didn't necessarily stop there- it might go further around if the temp was hotter than 220. So to test this when I got home from work today I immediately took another oil temp reading and it again read 220. Then I put the thermometer in the oven and set it to 300. Sure enough the gauge needle kept going around past 220, around again to about the 100 mark on the dial. (to indicate 300 degrees.) SO 220 degrees is indeed the ACTUAL oil temp I am measuring, which on a hot summer day in the south (about 95 degrees here today) I think is acceptable.
I guess it's just my engine bay is getting extremely warm from sitting in the parking lot all day with the sun hitting it and then heating it up even more driving home. But oil temp seems OK, that is a big sigh of relief.
Now all I have to do is figure out the cause of the boiling fuel. Last night I actually swapped out my stock oil bath air cleaner with the old Empi round chrome air cleaner I had laying around, to isolate the stock air cleaner as the source of the problem. (The Empi air cleaner has no flaps or preheat connection-- just the crankcase breather hose connection):
Pulling into the driveway after work it stumbled a little again but did not stumble low or stall. My flaps in the stock air cleaner seem to work perfectly OK though, so I don't know if this points out anything or not. I wonder if perhaps the WEIGHTED flap is causing an issue? Like at idle it is not closing off the snorkel all the way allowing fresh air to come in when it's not supposed to and thin out the mixture? _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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iowegian Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 9829 Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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sb001 wrote: |
................. Last night I actually swapped out my stock oil bath air cleaner with the old Empi round chrome air cleaner I had laying around, to isolate the stock air cleaner as the source of the problem. (The Empi air cleaner has no flaps or preheat connection-- just the crankcase breather hose connection):
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Steve, I can certainly appreciate your thoroughness as you try to sort out this very maddening situation.
But-----is it really necessary to remove the engine from the vehicle in order to change air cleaners? |
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itskyle Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2013 Posts: 634 Location: Plainfield, IN
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Forgot to ask, what size tires are you running? _________________ --
69 or 72 Autostick Bug current
66 Bug (We both miss it)
74 SuperBeetle Auto Stick (I miss that car)
73 SquareBack, Straight Stick (Wife misses this one.) |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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itskyle wrote: |
Forgot to ask, what size tires are you running? |
165/80R/15 _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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zoobyshoe Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2014 Posts: 461 Location: San Diego, Ca.
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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I ran across a previous thread about your problems ("Why the plume of smoke?") and see a lot of discussion about your distributor.
But, I'm confused. You say your distributor requires a dual vacuum can, which you have, yet you are running it as a single vacuum. Why aren't you running it as a dual vacuum, with the appropriate timing for that? You said you tried timing it at 5 degrees ATDC at some point, but it ran too hot. It wasn't clear if, when you tried that, you timed it with both vacuum hoses connected, as Bently and Rob and Dave prescribe. (All the timing attempts you otherwise mention, you had at least one hose disconnected.)
Due to the continuing problems, I wondering if the assumption the dual vacuum can be run in any way other than the full dual vacuum monty is wrong. The full monty being: time it at 5 degrees after top dead center, with both hoses attached to the proper ports on the carb, at normal idle speed.
Apologies if you've already given this a try. |
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Chochobeef Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2013 Posts: 811 Location: Ft. Worth, Texas
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:51 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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sb001 wrote: |
Now all I have to do is figure out the cause of the boiling fuel. |
Quick and easy thing. Find a piece of hose slightly larger than the metal line that runs into the engine bay and cover it from the fire wall to as close as you can get to your rubber fuel line.
I slit my piece of rubber so I could slide it on and off as needed. I've not had any issues since doing this, but my metal tubing also runs outside the normal position. See my gallery pic
I also safety wired it so it would stay above the manifold heat tube and not flop around. Might help you and its quick, cheap and easy. (don't worry, that green wire was taken care of) |
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Bashr52 Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2006 Posts: 5666 Location: On an island in VA
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:11 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Chochobeef wrote: |
sb001 wrote: |
Now all I have to do is figure out the cause of the boiling fuel. |
Quick and easy thing. Find a piece of hose slightly larger than the metal line that runs into the engine bay and cover it from the fire wall to as close as you can get to your rubber fuel line.
I slit my piece of rubber so I could slide it on and off as needed. I've not had any issues since doing this, but my metal tubing also runs outside the normal position. See my gallery pic
I also safety wired it so it would stay above the manifold heat tube and not flop around. Might help you and its quick, cheap and easy. (don't worry, that green wire was taken care of) |
You should drill some holes in the bottom of your red bull heater block off cans, they will be more effective. |
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Bashr52 Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2006 Posts: 5666 Location: On an island in VA
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:18 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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sb001 wrote: |
I tried the tennis ball trick driving to work and back this afternoon.
It did not seem to make all that much of a difference. Engine bay was still pretty hot to touch anything upon arriving back home. |
Did you measure the oil temp again after driving with the tennis ball? You should have seen a drop of 10-15 degrees with it installed. |
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Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5366 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:37 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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sb001, you may want to consider getting one of these:
http://www.awesomepowdercoat.com/Venturi_Ring.html
I have one on my 1600DP in my '56 and it dropped the temps down a good 10 degrees. VW put them on the later fuel injected engines.
Before I owned the car, the engine use to get so hot the paint on the deck lid is all cracked and the paint on the apron is blistered off.
I would run with the stock air cleaner but without the pre heat hose - the weather is warm enough and it's probably not needed.
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zoobyshoe wrote: |
I ran across a previous thread about your problems ("Why the plume of smoke?") and see a lot of discussion about your distributor.
But, I'm confused. You say your distributor requires a dual vacuum can, which you have, yet you are running it as a single vacuum. Why aren't you running it as a dual vacuum, with the appropriate timing for that? You said you tried timing it at 5 degrees ATDC at some point, but it ran too hot. It wasn't clear if, when you tried that, you timed it with both vacuum hoses connected, as Bently and Rob and Dave prescribe. (All the timing attempts you otherwise mention, you had at least one hose disconnected.)
Due to the continuing problems, I wondering if the assumption the dual vacuum can be run in any way other than the full dual vacuum monty is wrong. The full monty being: time it at 5 degrees after top dead center, with both hoses attached to the proper ports on the carb, at normal idle speed.
Apologies if you've already given this a try. |
He's timing his engine at 32* BTDC at full advance (at least I hope he is) that way it eliminates any guess work at what the timing at idle should be.
The retard line on a DVDA is for emissions. It pulls the timing back to 5*ATDC for less pollutants out of the tail pipes. With it not hooked up it runs just like a SVDA. Timing at idle was fine when the car was new but as parts wear things go outta whack... you never want your distributor to advance the timing more than 32*. _________________ Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Bashr52 wrote: |
sb001 wrote: |
I tried the tennis ball trick driving to work and back this afternoon.
It did not seem to make all that much of a difference. Engine bay was still pretty hot to touch anything upon arriving back home. |
Did you measure the oil temp again after driving with the tennis ball? You should have seen a drop of 10-15 degrees with it installed. |
As I said I measured oil temp again after I got home from work from driving with the tennis ball and the oil temp still read 220. So the tennis ball really didn't seem to make much of a difference. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7300 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:56 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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sb001 wrote: |
Bashr52 wrote: |
sb001 wrote: |
I tried the tennis ball trick driving to work and back this afternoon.
It did not seem to make all that much of a difference. Engine bay was still pretty hot to touch anything upon arriving back home. |
Did you measure the oil temp again after driving with the tennis ball? You should have seen a drop of 10-15 degrees with it installed. |
As I said I measured oil temp again after I got home from work from driving with the tennis ball and the oil temp still read 220. So the tennis ball really didn't seem to make much of a difference. |
That's odd because the tennis ball trick works for me and accounts for at least 10* lower temps around here. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:59 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Chochobeef wrote: |
Quick and easy thing. Find a piece of hose slightly larger than the metal line that runs into the engine bay and cover it from the fire wall to as close as you can get to your rubber fuel line.
I slit my piece of rubber so I could slide it on and off as needed. I've not had any issues since doing this, but my metal tubing also runs outside the normal position. See my gallery pic
I also safety wired it so it would stay above the manifold heat tube and not flop around. Might help you and its quick, cheap and easy. (don't worry, that green wire was taken care of) |
I'm going to try something like this, or reroute my fuel line so there's no possible way it can touch the intake manifold- but I really don't think it is right now as I have it up off the manifold. Can't hurt though I guess..
Would the fuel absolutely have to be boiling in line there? It was suggested that it is actually boiling in the carb instead, causing expansion and excess fuel to dribble out the float bowl vent tube and down the carb throat. Thus the suggestion for extra gaskets on the carb base to try to lifft it up off the manifold more. If this is where it is boiling would this cause the bubbles in the fuel filter as well, even though the filter is in line BEFORE the carb? _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24738 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:26 am Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. |
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Stock should be a bracket on the left side of the shroud with rubber sleeve inside bracket like flex fuel line. Less length of fuel line in the engine compartment should mean less heat getting to the fuel.
_________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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