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Sick of this and about to give up.
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sb001
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:25 pm    Post subject: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

I have a new engine with probably no more than 1000 miles on it, newly rebuilt VW/Solex carb by volkzbitz, NOS Brosol (OEM VW supplier) fuel pump, original Bosch coil and distributor, Bosch plug wires and plugs, and original oil bath air cleaner. No crappy aftermarket parts on this car at all right now. It started and ran with WAY fewer problems 2 years ago when i had a leaky fuel pump, crappy Empi chrome filter and just dunked the carb in Berryman's chem dip. Back then it would fire RIGHT UP EVERY TIME. It might occasionally stumble accelerating from a stop but it would idle fine in gear and it would fire up IMMEDIATELY. EVERY TIME. I didn't have to hold the key for 20 seconds like I do now. And it would high idle steady and smooth, and idle down perfectly as engine warmed up--now it's completely unsteady until it settles down and it has a slight pop at higher idle like a slight misfire.
And I cannot keep it running OK for more than a week. Checked fuel pump check valve. Checked float needle valve in carb and cleaned out all jets. Tried timing and retiming and REtiming, tried tuning the carb every which way from Sunday following Volkzbitz procedure and VW resource and will get it idling smooth and timing dead on and then it says SCREW YOU. It will NOT stay the same way it was when I tune it! I drive for maybe a few days and then suddenly I get home and it craps out in the driveway for NO reason at all. When it happened again this afternoon (after spending all weekend trying to get it tuned right following every procedure to the letter, and running OK earlier in the day) I got it fired back up after holding the key turned for 20 SECONDS, checked the timing at idle and it had RETARDED 7 DEGREES. FOR NO REASON. WHAT THE FUCK. I have tried everything and NO ONE on here or otherwise can figure it out. Sick of this shit. I NEED SOMEONE TO LOOK AT THIS IN PERSON AND HELP ME.
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sb001
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

Oh and before loudmouth jp and iowegian chime in, I am not blaming the engine for any of this. It was rebuilt perfectly and tested and retested. It's not the ENGINE that is crapping out. So don't go there.
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Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor
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andk5591
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

Have you checked for vacuum leaks? Carb base to intake and intake to heads. Also spray careully along he intake itself. Have seen holes in the intake.

Just for shits and giggle, cap of the vacuum ports on the carb that go to the distributor. Idle speed will change, but is it stable?

Have you verified our fuel pressure. Should be around 3 lbs.

Here's one for you - just ran into this - Terrible idle, very hard to start, Was fine after being serviced for a couple days (not by me) then went to hell. I found the idel jet was loose.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

Have you ever done anything with the fuel tank?, when you take the lid off the float bowl is there any fine brown silt in the bottom?
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

Does it seem that the timing shifting around is the main problem?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

Pls don't take this the wrong way as it's not meant to be negative. Is there a VW club or person in your area that can come to you and the car and look it over? You've been struggling with this for a long time now.

Maybe it's time to have someone with much more VW aircooled experience go over the engine, carb, distributor, etc.. Maybe their more experienced eyes can identify exactly what the issues are with your motor.
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iowegian Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

sb001 wrote:
Oh and before loudmouth jp and iowegian chime in, I am not blaming the engine for any of this. It was rebuilt perfectly and tested and retested. It's not the ENGINE that is crapping out. So don't go there.

Hi, Steve.
I am sorry for your bad luck.
I truly hope that you get this situation figured out.
After working on these things for about 55 years now, I know how frustrating they can be.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

Check for lubricant on the points where they rub the shaft, and (related) your point gap.
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Max Welton
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

I can't help ... unless getting rid of carbs and distributors appeals to you. Wink

But I love the quote. Very Yogi Berra.

"Sometimes you either win or lose."

Max
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

So, what influences timing?

Distributor clamp loosening up on you? Re-time and use a marker to draw a line at the base of the distributor and the edge of the clamp. If the lines separate after running the car a few days, get a new clamp.

Got the correct Bosch condenser for your distributor?

Got good Bosch points? Does the dwell also change on you? I had a set of Autozone points where the spring actually broke in half. The car still ran--but not very well. I changed to new Bosch points after seeing that.

Got side-to-side wiggle in your distributor shaft?

If your timing is changing, I'd look closely at the above items.

Edit: while you're in there, check and scrape clean the rotor, distributor cap, four interior points of cap, and the springy carbon point in the center of the cap.

Tim
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Mikedrevguy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

Is there anything to the vacuum signal that could/would cause the timing to retard the way described?
With an auto stick, is it possible to run a 009 to test, verify,, isolate, eliminate at least one variable?

I'm sure youll get it squared away.
Rev
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johnnypan
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

iowegian wrote:
sb001 wrote:
Oh and before loudmouth jp and iowegian chime in, I am not blaming the engine for any of this. It was rebuilt perfectly and tested and retested. It's not the ENGINE that is crapping out. So don't go there.

Hi, Steve.
I am sorry for your bad luck.
I truly hope that you get this situation figured out.
After working on these things for about 55 years now, I know how frustrating they can be.


Iowegian,you are a kind and decent man, offering up your condolences. I view this from a different angle...karma... "what goes around comes around" or whatever you ascribe revisiting your past indiscretions...what I find most interesting is the severity of the torture,and how the boy perpetuates his misery with his shitty condescending attitude.. a textbook example of a death spiral.
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johnnypan
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

Oh,and as to your issue..gremlins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jljAMQNbl4Y


yep it must be gremlins..
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Joe Bence
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:30 am    Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

Timing all over the place , I would suspect a distributor drive/gear issue.
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Chris913653
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:50 am    Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

Just because a part is new doesn't mean it's good... process of elimination, throw in a different dizzy - still have the same issue, then at least you know it's not that... then carry on...
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itskyle
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:03 am    Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

sb001 wrote:
I have a new engine with probably no more than 1000 miles on it, newly rebuilt VW/Solex carb by volkzbitz, NOS Brosol (OEM VW supplier) fuel pump, original Bosch coil and distributor, Bosch plug wires and plugs, and original oil bath air cleaner. No crappy aftermarket parts on this car at all right now. It started and ran with WAY fewer problems 2 years ago when i had a leaky fuel pump, crappy Empi chrome filter and just dunked the carb in Berryman's chem dip. Back then it would fire RIGHT UP EVERY TIME. It might occasionally stumble accelerating from a stop but it would idle fine in gear and it would fire up IMMEDIATELY. EVERY TIME. I didn't have to hold the key for 20 seconds like I do now. And it would high idle steady and smooth, and idle down perfectly as engine warmed up--now it's completely unsteady until it settles down and it has a slight pop at higher idle like a slight misfire.
And I cannot keep it running OK for more than a week. Checked fuel pump check valve. Checked float needle valve in carb and cleaned out all jets. Tried timing and retiming and REtiming, tried tuning the carb every which way from Sunday following Volkzbitz procedure and VW resource and will get it idling smooth and timing dead on and then it says SCREW YOU. It will NOT stay the same way it was when I tune it! I drive for maybe a few days and then suddenly I get home and it craps out in the driveway for NO reason at all. When it happened again this afternoon (after spending all weekend trying to get it tuned right following every procedure to the letter, and running OK earlier in the day) I got it fired back up after holding the key turned for 20 SECONDS, checked the timing at idle and it had RETARDED 7 DEGREES. FOR NO REASON. WHAT THE FUCK. I have tried everything and NO ONE on here or otherwise can figure it out. Sick of this shit. I NEED SOMEONE TO LOOK AT THIS IN PERSON AND HELP ME.

Have you checked spark plug gap?

Remember, not all new Bosch parts are made in Deutschland, some are made in China.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

As an aside, does anybody know what is going on with vwar.org? I registered for membership but haven't heard back.

Kyle
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:15 am    Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
Pls don't take this the wrong way as it's not meant to be negative. Is there a VW club or person in your area that can come to you and the car and look it over? You've been struggling with this for a long time now.

Maybe it's time to have someone with much more VW aircooled experience go over the engine, carb, distributor, etc.. Maybe their more experienced eyes can identify exactly what the issues are with your motor.


sb001,

I would do the above. I've run into issues like the above from time to time with different cars I have. I am not sure what your background is, but sometimes it's a simple fix that an air-cooled mechanic with years of experience can figure out. vs continuing to throw new parts at it & increasing your frustration. I also mean this as a positive. Good luck to you & I hope it runs like new soon!!

Mike
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:01 am    Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

VW engines are basically 4 cylinder lawn mower engines.

There's not really much to go wrong. So start at the beginning and recheck.

1) adjust and confirm that the valves are moving and have the correct lash.

2) confirm compression and maybe do a leak down test

3) ignition - check the spark plugs and gap them. Check for play in the distributor drive. What distributor? Is it working correctly? Does it have points or a electronic replacement? Adjust the dwell. Adjust the ignition timing. Confirm that the vacuum advance works. Confirm that the mechanical advance works.

4) Fuel - Is the tank clean, replace the fuel lines, add a filter before the pump and adjust the carb.

5) check for manifold leaks at the heads, the boots, the base of the carb and the carb itself.

Aftermarket carbs and distributors can have very poor quality control, so don't ASSume they are working correctly out of the box. Many need to be taken apart, fixed and rebuilt.

These engines are not "rocket science". Get someone else to look at it with you. You could be missing the same thing everytime you work on it.
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iowegian Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

Tim Donahoe wrote:
So, what influences timing?

Distributor clamp loosening up on you? Re-time and use a marker to draw a line at the base of the distributor and the edge of the clamp. If the lines separate after running the car a few days, get a new clamp.

Got the correct Bosch condenser for your distributor?

Got good Bosch points? Does the dwell also change on you? I had a set of Autozone points where the spring actually broke in half. The car still ran--but not very well. I changed to new Bosch points after seeing that.


Got side-to-side wiggle in your distributor shaft?


If your timing is changing, I'd look closely at the above items.



Tim

This.
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johnnypan
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: Sick of this and about to give up. Reply with quote

Oh good lord,its become a cause....a loose cam gear can cause timing scatter.Timing scatter can cause intermittent starting problems..Hook your timing light up and aim it at the timing mark,run the engine at different rpms,and through a smooth acceleration,watch the timing mark advance,it should rise smoothly..if it chatters or jumps around excessively.. and the distributor shaft is tight.. remove the oil pump and check the cam gear bolts/rivets.A sticking distributor flyweight will give the same results.


Bullshit Glenn,it is rocket science...sport model lawn mower my ass..
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