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1.8 Porsche engine fitting to a type 1 transmission?
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burnin8r
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:57 pm    Post subject: 1.8 Porsche engine fitting to a type 1 transmission? Reply with quote

Hi, Total newbie here, I have a what I believe is a 1600cc (siezed) twin port on a swing-tube (I'm not sure what you guys call it) style transmission on my "mystery buggy" I'm looking at a 1.8 from a '73 914... question is, will it fit the transmission I have or will I have to chop the back of the dogbone off to fit the IRS and pop in the porsche transmission?

Just wanting to beef up the ride a bit and keep the reliability of a stock engine.

I will post pictures of the buggy when I've got this figured out.... haven't posted on a thread in years.[/img]
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.8 Porsche engine fitting to a type 1 transmission? Reply with quote

You know....i don't know for sure. The type 4 engine will bolt up to a type 1 IRS....same bolt pattern....minor bell housing clearancing for a stock type 4 flywheel....or you can spend the money $$$....for a 200mm converion flywheel.

So....if the normal type 1 engine easily swaps back and forth between swing axle and IRS transmission.....the type 4 engine should bolt right up to it.

Bear in mind......the type 4 engine is heavier.....like 75 lbs more. You will need to fashion a rear hanger bar for the engine. Do some searches and take a look on the shoptalk forums on the type 4rum......under the conversion thread. Lots of info there. Ray
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burnin8r
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.8 Porsche engine fitting to a type 1 transmission? Reply with quote

Thank you for the info!

This build is a total basket case, so making modifications won't be an issue seeing as I'm stripping everything down, and still have to build the roll cage, windshield, rear hanger, etc. The pan has ben shortened closer to 20 inches, So I may have to add some weight in the nose. First time building such a small machine. Had a rail when I was 16, so the urge came over me to get something similar again.
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Starbucket
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.8 Porsche engine fitting to a type 1 transmission? Reply with quote

You will want a really strong roll cage as short wheel base cars/buggies turn and roll over really easy, also out on the dunes be ready for some end over ends. As for the engine and trans. fit-up, pull the trans and do it on the garage floor then left the whole assembly and put it in as a unit. It's a lot easer than trying to push and to wiggle it together on your back. Plus you can fit the new motor up till it hits the trans (put a coat of red grease on the face of the flywheel teeth) and remove the motor and grind the areas with the grease until it mates up with the trans. Pretty easy with a Dremel tool and some course ball bits.
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burnin8r
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.8 Porsche engine fitting to a type 1 transmission? Reply with quote

Thanks Starbucket,

Anything regarding saving my poor spine is well worth remembering. The heads up on it's stability is another good pointer.

I think this won't see as much sand as it will pavement, grass and dirt, but probably a good idea to build something solid either way. I was thinking a reinforced hoop linked to the winshield frame as well as scrub bars on the side, as well as something substantial in the front. Won't hurt it to add a little weight if it won't see a lot of sand up north here.
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pds00
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.8 Porsche engine fitting to a type 1 transmission? Reply with quote

I have a 2.0 914 engine with a 1.8 sitting right next to it. They were both given to me as the old owner said the 2.0 was running when they removed it 10 yrs ago. Both engines look identical. I just started trying to fit the 2.0 to my type 1 gear box. It is a swing axle trans. I'm not willing to overhaul my frame as its in a rail buggy and what I currently run works. My first hurdle is that the flywheel is to wide and won't allow the motor/trans to mate. It leaves about and 3/16 gap btw the two. From what I hear there is a company called
Kennedy Manufacturing that makes adapter plates for these types of situations. Good luck and keep us updated.
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burnin8r
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: 1.8 Porsche engine fitting to a type 1 transmission? Reply with quote

pds00;

I've been told by a certain knowledgeable local vw mechanic that there's a bus engine of a certain year/size that the flywheel fits in the type 1 trans. At that time he'd also offered to sell me the clutch / flywheel that fits out of his stock of parts. This is second hand information, so I don't know the specifics of what year / displacement.

So the option of sourcing used parts may be cheaper than this kit you've mentioned.

If anyone can add to this information it'd certainly be helpful!
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:41 am    Post subject: Re: 1.8 Porsche engine fitting to a type 1 transmission? Reply with quote

burnin8r wrote:
pds00;

I've been told by a certain knowledgeable local vw mechanic that there's a bus engine of a certain year/size that the flywheel fits in the type 1 trans. At that time he'd also offered to sell me the clutch / flywheel that fits out of his stock of parts. This is second hand information, so I don't know the specifics of what year / displacement.

So the option of sourcing used parts may be cheaper than this kit you've mentioned.

If anyone can add to this information it'd certainly be helpful!


Yes.....in general.....the 914 2.0 flywheel was:
A. Forged compared to cast for the other vw cars that used the type 4 engine (411, 412 and bus)

B. There was a 5mm difference in the 914 specific flywheel. The ring gear was in a different place by 5mm.

You need a flywheel from a VW bus or four speed 411 or 412. There are three sizes.....210mm, 215mm and 228mm.

Typically all of the 2.0s whether bus or 914....came with a 228mm. However the bus needed one simply because it was so heavy and the 914 used one because it was more of a sports car.

Your vehicle would do just fine with a 210 or 215. Bear in mind.....the 1.7L engine put out 82hp. It put out more hp than the 1.8L in the 412 or 914 in the US......and had no issues with the 210mm clutch....and the 412 was a 2300 lb car.

In fact in most instances because of tuning issues.....the 1.7s in many cases put out nearly equal hp to some poorly tuned 2.0L engines and had no issues with a 210 or 215 clutch.

Also if the 228 flywheel is in good shape.....and its a stock Porsche part......its worth enough money to buy you a new clutch and flywheel. Ray
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pds00
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: 1.8 Porsche engine fitting to a type 1 transmission? Reply with quote

Sorry to hijack the post. I suppose I'll have to look for either of the two flywheels. I have a spare 1.8 but it didn't come with a flywheel. I assume they bolt up the same with the 5 bolts in the center? Would I also have to get the clutch assembly or would my existing clutch out of my 2.0 work? Also would I need a starter out of a 1.7 or could I use the 2.0 starter?
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: 1.8 Porsche engine fitting to a type 1 transmission? Reply with quote

pds00 wrote:
Sorry to hijack the post. I suppose I'll have to look for either of the two flywheels. I have a spare 1.8 but it didn't come with a flywheel. I assume they bolt up the same with the 5 bolts in the center? Would I also have to get the clutch assembly or would my existing clutch out of my 2.0 work? Also would I need a starter out of a 1.7 or could I use the 2.0 starter?


Yes...the bolt up is the same. Should be easy to find a flywheel from a 1.7 or 1.8 bus.
No...the clutch plate and disc from the 2.0 will be too large in diameter. I cannot remember about the starter. Let me check.
Ray
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Wolfgangdieter
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.8 Porsche engine fitting to a type 1 transmission? Reply with quote

You need a '72-75 VW Bus T4 flywheel then drill/tap it for a T1 stock pilot bearing. The exhaust is going costly though. Maybe start with the bus heat exchangers and exhaust?
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Wolfgangdieter
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: 1.8 Porsche engine fitting to a type 1 transmission? Reply with quote

The 914 starters are same (1.7, 1.8, 2.0) along with bus/411/412 starters are the same as is the VW T1 AT starter (one that doesn't require support bearing).
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williamM
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: 1.8 Porsche engine fitting to a type 1 transmission? Reply with quote

If- you get your T4 bolted to your T1 trans and the starter will not bolt up-- you may have the problem I had with my 210 clutch -- ended up needing a special starter-


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