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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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 Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 7:27 am Post subject: Oil pumps, covers, and full flow |
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So, I'm finally getting off my ass, and prepping the engine case I've got sitting here, and i'm planning to set up the oil system. I've already got a Scat sump to use, and i don't have any full flow parts or pumps at all.
Engine will end up either a thickwall 1835, 1904 (74 x 90.5) or 1967 (74 x 92) and is for a daily driver, not a high rev engine. Kadrons or 40IDF, etc.
Still working on "exact" details but I know for certain that I want a 26mm pump, and a 3/8FIP outlet on the pump cover. I saw the Maxi 5 from CB, but not hot on the idea of 1/4FIP outlet. I've had great luck with Schadek pumps in the past and was looking at these guys from Aircooled.net...
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Schadek-26mm-Oil-Pump-8mm-Pump-Studs-111-115-107-p/111-115-107akhd.htm
and these are the covers I'm looking at...
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Full-Flow-Oil-Pump-Co...umpcvr.htm
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Billet-Aluminum-Oil-P...-cover.htm
any real difference in these two covers? any decent priced steel full flow covers around? the billet one looks like it might take some grinding and more beating to get the tin to clear. would going for an IN/OUT cover be a reasonable alternative to returning oil to the case?
Are these worth trying?
http://www.amazon.com/31-2940-0-Cover-Fitting-Gask...l+flow+oil
Oil hose- I'm using braided stainless and AN fittings on the engine that is in my car now, and its a bit of a pain to deal with. Would quick-connect barbs and the blue goodyear hose be a decent substitute? I don't mind the cost of AN/stainless but i hate how stiff it is.
Also, this is the adapter I'm planning on going with, it will get reducer bushings in the extra ports, a pressure sender, and a temperature sender...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00GN6XBMO/ref=aw_w...k129040-20
Before my current engine I was a filter-pump guy, and since getting this car I've loved having a remote filter. I just want to set it up nicely without throwing money where it doesn't need to stick 
Here's a pic of the current rig, just to entice some replies...
(I know some people stop reading when they don't see pics)
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Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!
Last edited by Lingwendil on Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4343
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:39 am Post subject: Re: Oil pumps, covers, and full flow |
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Though I've never actually tested myself, it has been said that aluminum covers tend to warp once torqued. I guess I could test with a dial indicator on the center while torquing. I just buy cast iron covers. Berg has fairly inexpensive covers for under $30 here on the Samba. The machining is of a much higher quality as well. Check em out.
Also, blueprint your Schadek pump before installing. |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Oil pumps, covers, and full flow |
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I use/recommend cast iron pump covers.
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Full-Flow-Oil-Pump-Cover-Cast-Iron-AC115151B-p/ac115151b.htm
Resurfacing is required, either by you or us, to clean up "issues". Standard stuff.
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5969
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pumps, covers, and full flow |
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Having stainless braided outer/ teflon inner hoses made, with crimped on ends is my favorite lately. Or just using standard hydraulic hose, and crimped on ends, as it's pretty much bomb proof. Where I run through exhaust headers, order up some fire sleeve, and make a bracket so it doesn't sit on the pipes. The push on hose does work ok, but since seeing the aftermath of a blown off hose, I'm just a little shy to use it. I half suspect the guy didn't have it on all the way, or damaged it putting it together, but I just can't bring myself to use it since then. He soaked everything in sight, even got oil in the pool.
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TinCanFab
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 2743
Location: Waterford, California
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pumps, covers, and full flow |
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| Lingwendil wrote: |
Any pictures or brand name? I assume it's tapped 3/8FIP? |
The closest equivalent size to 1/4" NPT is -6 AN. Don't worry about that, they are just measured in a different way. A GOOD -6 to 1/4" NPT fitting will have the same size hole machined through it.... I see no issue running 1/4" NPT to -8 for what we use it for. But you are only adapting one size up, not 2 like it appears on paper.
If you are concerned about flow restrictions, get XRP fittings. They are machined with high flow radius and made in USA. Cheap fittings will have an ugly step inside and/or blunt edges on the NPT side. You can always carefully file/grind any steps in the fitting too.
I also recommend Teflon hose if you can swing it. Especially for fuel
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=658092 |
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TinCanFab
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Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 2743
Location: Waterford, California
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4343
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pumps, covers, and full flow |
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| I just used two. They were fine. That's why you measure them before assembly. If they're slightly larger than the case I.D., you're good. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26790
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pumps, covers, and full flow |
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I like the CB pumps because they come with a keyed gear and the idler shaft is stepped-in and fit in place much better than regular shadec.
The heavy cast aluminum covers in most of the MAXI series are quite stout and don't seem to leak/warp at all (after sanding flat and installed with sealant), but yes some aluminum covers do.
I bought a cast aluminum empi cover and that one will probably never seal, it's just too thin and not good material. If you get a empi cover yes go for the iron one. |
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slalombuggy
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Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 9147
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pumps, covers, and full flow |
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| modok wrote: |
I like the CB pumps because they come with a keyed gear and the idler shaft is stepped-in and fit in place much better than regular shadec.
The heavy cast aluminum covers in most of the MAXI series are quite stout and don't seem to leak/warp at all (after sanding flat and installed with sealant), but yes some aluminum covers do.
I bought a cast aluminum empi cover and that one will probably never seal, it's just too thin and not good material. If you get a empi cover yes go for the iron one. |
X2 I've used a bunch of CB pumps and never had a problem with them leaking or pressure. I've used in/out and full flow style and #8AN fittings.
brad |
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jestes
Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Spokane, WA
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 12:26 am Post subject: Re: Oil pumps, covers, and full flow |
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I've had good luck with the shadek pumps. For my money the Berg setup with the pressure relief pump cover upgrade is the way to go. The lines will last a life time as will the cast iron cover. I may have to look into those Jiffy Tite quick connects though, those look pretty sweet!
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Jason
http://57bugbuild.blogspot.com/ |
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Alstrup
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7219
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 12:43 am Post subject: Re: Oil pumps, covers, and full flow |
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The cast iron pump covers are better in staying straight compared to aluminum. But they do have a tendency to crack over time. I have replaced numerous cast iron pump covers, all brands, so many that I have actually stopped using them on new builds. I use the thickest aluminum types I can find, which is CSP at least for the time being.
T |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5969
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 5:04 am Post subject: Re: Oil pumps, covers, and full flow |
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Adam Kottle of Seward Speed Service makes a very nice thick machined steel cover. He doesn't advertise them, but you can message him to find out more.
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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MConstable
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2004
Posts: 1822
Location: Saint Charles IL
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 5:47 am Post subject: Re: Oil pumps, covers, and full flow |
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Sorry for the minor hijack, but it's related...
What's the difference between Bergs normal covers and the pressure relief covers? |
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jbbugs
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2002
Posts: 2152
Location: Behind the wheel
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Oil pumps, covers, and full flow |
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http://vwcatalog.empius.com/vwcatalog/2016/47.html
#31-2940
I've used more of these than I can remember , and they work great. Put them next to the Berg cover, and they are very close to the same.
They're only around $20 bucks.
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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jestes
Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Spokane, WA
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Oil pumps, covers, and full flow |
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| MConstable wrote: |
| What's the difference between Bergs normal covers and the pressure relief covers? |
The standard cover forces all the oil into the filter with no care about pressure. The pressure relief cover has a valve that will dump oil back into the pump when the pressure gets too high. Assuming it all works correctly, you won't dump 200 psi at cold start up into your oil filter / external cooler and blow it up.
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Jason
http://57bugbuild.blogspot.com/ |
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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jestes
Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Spokane, WA
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pumps, covers, and full flow |
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| Lingwendil wrote: |
^
I see no use for a relief cover unless you are running an external oil cooler and filter, and returning into the bypass plug galley on the case... the dual relief case does this already... Or am I mistaken? |
Agreed, there is only a need for a relief cover if you are using an external filter and/or cooler. Yes the factory dual relief case will do this, but the pressurized oil will go through the filter/cooler before the pressure is relieved. While it will help, I still prefer to relieve the pressure at the pump before it even gets to the filter.
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Jason
http://57bugbuild.blogspot.com/ |
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