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ALANSD Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2015 Posts: 341 Location: Woodstock, GA
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Running hot |
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I mentioned this somewhere...my Thing has a large oil cooler with an electric fan, switch installed between the seats.
I am still missing some tin, the cooler helps keep the temps down. Check out the fan size..that baby is a bit LOUD!
An electric fuel pump is also installed.
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5688 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Running hot |
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I've gotta wonder how much air is actually being pulled through the cooler vs around the cooler?
Air, like water, takes the path of least resistance. With the fan poking so far outside the sides of the cooler, I would have to guess that a very large percentage of air that goes through the fan totally circumvents the cooler altogether. _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5688 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: Running hot |
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I was thinking about that fan a little bit more.
I think if you made a shroud of sorts to cover the areas from the cooler to the edges of the fan, you'd then force all of the air the fan pulls to go through the cooler and increase the efficiency of the whole package. Probably would be fairly easy to make a "good enough" shroud out of some sheet metal. _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17285 Location: Left coast, Canada
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:52 pm Post subject: Re: Running hot |
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oasis wrote: |
Again, I don't want to come off as being difficult but I would have expected the oil temps to have liked the higher RPMs. |
The higher rpms cause the fan to spin faster, so that's good for cooling the heads and cylinders. But at the same time, the higher rpm causes the oil pump gears to turn faster, creating higher oil pressure. When your pressure is high, the stock oil cooler gets bypassed, causing higher oil temps.
oasis wrote: |
Also, my perception of lugging seems to be different. Thing seems quite happy at 2,500 RPMs -- certainly nothing close to lugging as I have always understood it. |
Overheated oil isn't "happy".
oasis wrote: |
I downshift for braking purposes ..... |
You should stop doing this. What does it cost to replace your gearbox? $1000+? What are a set of brake shoes worth? $30? _________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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vw moses Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2012 Posts: 213 Location: independance,louisiana
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Running hot |
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FRESH AIR! _________________ Youtube@vw moses
73 thing-gone
66 beetle-gone
62 beetle-gone
57 beetle-gone
convertable-beetle-w/bugspray & screamer dist.(019) gone
"Where There's a Will There's a Way"
63 one of a kind beetle. 57 dash,double rear window--sweet! |
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74 Thing Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 7390
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Running hot |
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Is that really loud? |
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mondshine Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006 Posts: 2769 Location: The World's Motor Capital
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Running hot |
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While I was working on my "Boob Tube" cooling duct,
I took the car for a quick spin with the duct off, and just a big open hole in front of the fan inlet.
It sounded like there was a 747 in the back seat. |
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vw moses Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2012 Posts: 213 Location: independance,louisiana
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:18 pm Post subject: Re: Running hot |
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my mod is pointing up ward, so it(sound)projects up some what.
i may make some sides to really direct the waves.(2"'s)upwards
the whole car is noisy, so it don't matter to me, actually hear the mtr. good and the most noise is when i give the gas, crusing no diffrence than before.
its a radical Thing-also run w/no top at all. crazy ,but got to keep my mtr. cooler and happy
as a whole not for the stereo lovers--mine don't have radieo,etc.
Modshine thats clean looking--i like it. _________________ Youtube@vw moses
73 thing-gone
66 beetle-gone
62 beetle-gone
57 beetle-gone
convertable-beetle-w/bugspray & screamer dist.(019) gone
"Where There's a Will There's a Way"
63 one of a kind beetle. 57 dash,double rear window--sweet! |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Running hot |
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I don't get out on the freeway much with my T181, but did today. After running 65-67 mph for 60 miles my oil temps were just under 170°F. Fairly stock engine with either 5w40 or 10w40 in the crankcase. |
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Bashr52 Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2006 Posts: 5666 Location: On an island in VA
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:27 am Post subject: Re: Running hot |
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I just got my new trans installed, similar gearing as the OP (3.88 R&P with .89 4th). It is a real highway cruiser now, it really wants to move. I do have smaller rear tires, but after a 45 minute drive home yesterday between highway, rural state roads, and stop and go, my oil temp was between 215-220 when I got home, which I confirmed with a thermometer in the dipstick hole.
I'm turning 2800 RPM at 60 mph.
2232 with all the stock cooling tin and seals in place, flaps wired open, additional air cutout on the front engine tin. |
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ALANSD Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2015 Posts: 341 Location: Woodstock, GA
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Running hot |
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vwwestyman wrote: |
I was thinking about that fan a little bit more.
I think if you made a shroud of sorts to cover the areas from the cooler to the edges of the fan, you'd then force all of the air the fan pulls to go through the cooler and increase the efficiency of the whole package. Probably would be fairly easy to make a "good enough" shroud out of some sheet metal. |
Interesting idea. I have some sheet aluminum I might try that with. Not sure yet how hot my oil is, and I have added a tennis ball under the rear hood latch just to be helpful in the GA Summer heat |
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ALANSD Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2015 Posts: 341 Location: Woodstock, GA
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: Running hot |
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I went ahead and ordered the savemybug oil stick. Better safe than sorry. |
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MConstable Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2004 Posts: 1822 Location: Saint Charles IL
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Running hot |
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ALANSD wrote: |
I went ahead and ordered the savemybug oil stick. Better safe than sorry. |
Two things...
Make sure and calibrate it, mine was off quite a bit
Also make sure the wire loop that rotates and contacts the screw to make the connection to turn your oil light on actually contacts the screw.
I had to tweak mine |
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GI Joe Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2005 Posts: 2012 Location: Athens, TN
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Running hot |
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ALANSD wrote: |
vwwestyman wrote: |
I was thinking about that fan a little bit more.
I think if you made a shroud of sorts to cover the areas from the cooler to the edges of the fan, you'd then force all of the air the fan pulls to go through the cooler and increase the efficiency of the whole package. Probably would be fairly easy to make a "good enough" shroud out of some sheet metal. |
Interesting idea. I have some sheet aluminum I might try that with. Not sure yet how hot my oil is, and I have added a tennis ball under the rear hood latch just to be helpful in the GA Summer heat |
Maybe get a 12v centrifugal fan, new (Dayco makes one) or from a wrecking yard and use it. It will likely be capable of way more flow than an axial fan, you could add a ballast resister in series with the motor for a low speed that was on whenever the engine was running and have a switch that turned the fan on full speed if and when the oil temps reached some set point. |
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oasis Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2002 Posts: 2168
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:18 am Post subject: Re: Running hot |
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Here is the latest on my Thing.
The mechanic drove it for 45 minutes. The gauge at the end gave as high of a reading as 220°F. The oil was immediately measured at the sending unit as 186°F, 200°F at the oil pump, and 180°F somewhere else (can't read my scribble while I was multitasking). A laser pointer type of thermometer was used.
I am getting the Thing back later this week (other non-related things are being done). I hope I will receive my dipstick thermometer by then. I haven't heard from aircooled.net yet about my order, so that's puzzling. I know some prefer the dipstick method in contrast to my shop.
A new sending unit was ordered for the gauge.
Again, I appreciate all of the input I have received. We'll see.
Edit: tracking update says dipstick thermometer should arrive tomorrow. _________________ Now: 2003 New Beetle Turbo S / 1990 Single Cab Transporter / 2014 Tiguan R-Line 4motion / 2013 Tiguan S / 2002 Golf GLS TDI
Past: 1974 Thing Acapulco / 2009 Eos Komfort / 1997 Jetta GT / 2002 Cabrio GLX / 2002 Passat GLS / 1971 Super Beetle / 1993 EuroVan MV Westfalia / 1981 Pickup LX / 1985 Vanagon / 1986 Jetta GLI |
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doublecanister Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2008 Posts: 1184 Location: Richmond, Va
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Running hot |
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what's a best method to calibrate one of those dipstick thermometer from
save my bug?
I think I tried it as is, and used a infrared thermometer to test because I couldn't find a candy thermometer that got hot enough to go above 212.
Mine seems close enough but now since yall reminded me I probably should double check it.
Note: the only gripe I have about it is removing it to check my oil.
I probably should make it so I have a electric plug to unplug then remove due to it's length it gets in a bit of a twist with the generator belt.
you can wiggle it all around to get it out ok,
but Once it's out I use my old dipstick to check the oil.
T _________________ ****************************************
2020 - Mustang Eco Boost [High Performance]
1973 - Thing
1966 - Mustang GT- Fastback
1951 - Ford F1 pickup Flathead V8 |
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mondshine Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006 Posts: 2769 Location: The World's Motor Capital
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Running hot |
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There was a TV game show back when I was a kid (actually hosted by Johnny Carson) called "Who Do You Trust?"
If you have several thermometers, chances are that no two read identically, and even if they do...are they accurate? So which one do you believe?
It seems that with each additional method of temperature measurement comes new doubt. Which measurement is accurate, where do you measure, etc.
There is a huge variation in oil temperature in different parts of the engine.
I would be surprised if the oil that's dripping off of the exhaust valve stems inside the valve covers isn't a good 50-75 degrees hotter than the oil in the bottom of the sump.
So you've got to pick a spot to measure and stick with it.
After a while, you will get a "feel" for what temperatures to expect in various driving conditions. Then, you will readily spot something unusual on the gauge, and act accordingly.
Main thing is...watch the road, not the gauges.
Good luck, Mondshine |
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ALANSD Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2015 Posts: 341 Location: Woodstock, GA
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Running hot |
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Just got my dipstick thingie from Savemybug. Pretty quick shipping.
Now to install it. |
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KAmes Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014 Posts: 876 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Running hot |
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doublecanister wrote: |
what's a best method to calibrate one of those dipstick thermometer from
save my bug?
I think I tried it as is, and used a infrared thermometer to test because I couldn't find a candy thermometer that got hot enough to go above 212.
Mine seems close enough but now since yall reminded me I probably should double check it.
Note: the only gripe I have about it is removing it to check my oil.
I probably should make it so I have a electric plug to unplug then remove due to it's length it gets in a bit of a twist with the generator belt.
you can wiggle it all around to get it out ok,
but Once it's out I use my old dipstick to check the oil.
T |
I didn't calibrate mine but since I put in my new gauge sender it seems to match up to the gauge. I've read that some people make a mark on it to use as a substitute dipstick, I've had this idea to make a tube to store the original dipstick in the engine compartment somehow but I haven't done it yet. |
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