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stonecoldcars Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2013 Posts: 265 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Fastback fuel injection project |
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This is a new pump? When i cleaned my pump I did as the guys here suggested and submerged the whole thing in diesel fuel hooked up to a battery straight to it. ran it one direction then reversed the polarity the other direction. My pump would draw in fuel but zero output, reverse it and it would spit it out, plus a bunch of old gunk. I wound up taking the top 4 screws off and removed the top of the pump. I found my pressure relief piston was stuck shut not allowing any fuel to leave. So I removed the cone cap on the side, just bend the soft crimped metal. (be careful its under high spring tension) I was able to free the piston, clean and lubed. re-installed everything and now my pump works. I was able to shoot diesel across the room when I put my thumb over the demand nipple like you would on a garden hose. I also completely blocked it with my thumb and made sure the relief piston opened to the return nipple, which it did.. Now keep this in mind, this is all still bench tested I have yet to confirm in the car, because I'm not quite there yet.. This weekend though I will know.. _________________ My build thread(The desert Rat). http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653395 |
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t-royR Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2012 Posts: 454 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Fastback fuel injection project |
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brand new fuel pump (Airtex E2000). Didn't check my original pump, as the former owner indicated it had issues. I now have two original pumps. I think I'll check them in diesel and see if they are good. would rather have original parts in the car. But, doubt my new pump is bad. _________________ T-roy
75 Super
71 Super
71 Ghia coupe auto-stick
71 Ghia conv
69 Fasty
74 Ghia conv |
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t-royR Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2012 Posts: 454 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Fastback fuel injection project |
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_________________ T-roy
75 Super
71 Super
71 Ghia coupe auto-stick
71 Ghia conv
69 Fasty
74 Ghia conv |
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stonecoldcars Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2013 Posts: 265 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Fastback fuel injection project |
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Guess another thing to check is voltage. From what I have read these FI system must have 14.5 volts to operate.. Guess the voltage regulator is a common weak link. Without this voltage the electrical system can not function. Hence shut down even with a brand new battery. _________________ My build thread(The desert Rat). http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653395 |
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t-royR Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2012 Posts: 454 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Fastback fuel injection project |
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Where do I check that voltage? Battery is new.
A dumb question.....what is an effective way to prevent lots of gas when disconnecting fuel lines that now have fuel in them? Some kind of pinch tool to pinch the hose(s)? _________________ T-roy
75 Super
71 Super
71 Ghia coupe auto-stick
71 Ghia conv
69 Fasty
74 Ghia conv |
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stonecoldcars Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2013 Posts: 265 Location: Oregon
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stonecoldcars Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2013 Posts: 265 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: Fastback fuel injection project |
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To check the voltage, someone us might chime in here with more experience than me. But I would say test at the voltage regulator or battery directly. But it has to be running first. Because it's voltage running. _________________ My build thread(The desert Rat). http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653395 |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Fastback fuel injection project |
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I am not sure where the 14V claim originated.
I've read the system needs at least 9.6V to operate at all.
Of course it can operate at "only" 12V, since that's all it gets at idle (battery power).
Most 12V charging systems target 13.8V for charging voltage.
So how can 14 or more be required? |
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stonecoldcars Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2013 Posts: 265 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Fastback fuel injection project |
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KTPhil wrote: |
I am not sure where the 14V claim originated.
I've read the system needs at least 9.6V to operate at all.
Of course it can operate at "only" 12V, since that's all it gets at idle (battery power).
Most 12V charging systems target 13.8V for charging voltage.
So how can 14 or more be required? |
I'll for sure stand corrected on this, I easily could have read a thread wrong.. I've read so much these last few weeks. but regardless of my inaccuracy the voltage and clean grounds shouldn't go without the possibility. _________________ My build thread(The desert Rat). http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653395 |
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Donnie strickland Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009 Posts: 2403 Location: Moody, AL
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Fastback fuel injection project |
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t-royR wrote: |
When I hooked the battery up last night, i noticed a spark when connecting to the positive terminal (I hooked the negative up first). Is that significant? Mean something (short somewhere)? |
It just means something is drawing current. It could be your dome light. _________________ 71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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Donnie strickland Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009 Posts: 2403 Location: Moody, AL
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Fastback fuel injection project |
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t-royR wrote: |
I think I'll check them in diesel and see if they are good. would rather have original parts in the car. But, doubt my new pump is bad. |
Unless it's a show car, there's no compelling reason to stay with an old pump. The Airtex works perfectly; I've been running one for two years. To check it, just run a hot wire to the + on the pump, and a ground to the other. _________________ 71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback
Last edited by Donnie strickland on Thu May 26, 2016 1:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Donnie strickland Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009 Posts: 2403 Location: Moody, AL
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Fastback fuel injection project |
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t-royR wrote: |
Where do I check that voltage? Battery is new. |
Voltage is checked at the battery, with the engine running.
Phil is correct; the system does not require 14 volts to run.
Something happened to stop your engine from running. You must check your fuel pressure before going any further. If that's ok, pull the injectors and see if they're spraying fuel while the engine turns. You can turn it over with a wrench to do this -- key on, coil unplugged! _________________ 71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Fastback fuel injection project |
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The EFI system....requires a minimum of 9.6 volts to run. However...it also runs richer and heats up more.... the lower the voltage goes.
The pump can "run"....down to about 9V...but again will have poor output and will run hot.
From your earlier measurements of about 11V...it should be running.
However....at the battery.... is not where you check the voltage if you are worried about voltage to the pump being the issue. You crimp a couple of male spade connectors onto wires with bullet connectors on the end...plug them into the fuel pump plug....plug in your volt meter and turn the key so you can see the voltage that is fed to the pump as the pump buzzes during the pre start cycle.
Make the test wires about 5 feet long so you can plug you meter in and then do this from the drivers seat.
If in fact you are getting no low or no voltage to the pump during the pump buzz cycle.....the next stage of the game is to pull the relay cover off and make sure the relay electromagnet is "clicking" or transferring power.
Clean all wire connectors to the relay. If its clicking when you turn the key...make sure its getting power to transfer when it clicks. Check the internal contacts for corrosion and carbon. It may be working perfectly but simply have dirty contacts.
If the relay is not clicking and has good battery voltage...you can try another relay...but also check all of the grounds and your ignition switch.
From your earlier test though...you jumpered the pump straight to battery....and it ran...but did not pump...right? you have a solid fuel supply right?...meaning when you unclip the supply line fuel rushes out iin a steady stream and not a dribble right?
So you have a pump that runs...wires are in the right order....fuel supply is steady...and it wont pump? Blow the pump out.
Outside of this...pump is shot. I agree with Donnie Strickland. I quit playing with D-jet pumps long ago.
They are/were world class expensive roller pumps in their day. They are all just too old. The youngest of them would be 30 years old about right now.
I cannot see one single need...short of a concors level trailer queen car...to actually use a stock D-jet pump anymore when there are literally hundreds of Bosch and other brand, readily available pumps that are cheaper and either just as ....or more reliable. You should be able to get the Airtex or a wide range of similar pumps for $85-$120 each.
Rebuilding the D-jet pumps...nice as they are and interesting as it is....is the equivalent of me needing a new hip....and my doctor going down to the cemetery...digging one up...and spending all weekend in the garage sanding and polishing it. In the end...its still an old bone.
Ray |
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t-royR Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2012 Posts: 454 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Fastback fuel injection project |
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I found a gauge and rigged it for testing the fuel pressure. I'll give that a try this weekend.
Thanks for all the suggestions thus far. Goal is to get this running by June 4th for the big air cooled "Bug in" in Saint Louis Park, MN
_________________ T-roy
75 Super
71 Super
71 Ghia coupe auto-stick
71 Ghia conv
69 Fasty
74 Ghia conv |
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t-royR Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2012 Posts: 454 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Fastback fuel injection project |
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I bought a second full fuel injection system from someone a few months ago, who was selling has squareback, thta had been converted to carb. Before I pull the injectors in my engine to see if they are bad, i tested the four of these with a 9 volt, and they all click nicely. But, the hoses attached are cracked. How do I remove the clamp on this injector? Would like to install all four of them.
_________________ T-roy
75 Super
71 Super
71 Ghia coupe auto-stick
71 Ghia conv
69 Fasty
74 Ghia conv |
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stonecoldcars Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2013 Posts: 265 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Fastback fuel injection project |
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[img]
Note*Copied and Taken from another thread[/img]
You also have to slit the side of the crimp, parallel to the hose, to remove it.
Remove the injector pairs and remove the objectors. Get new injector tip seals before you begin, to be sure they will seal right when reassembled.
Be careful not to cut or nick the inner metal pipe the hose is crimped to. A hacksaw can be used or better still a dremel. Buy good FI hose and clamps (not worm clamps) and also be very careful to match the hose length. On some cars the clearance between the fuel rail and the body is small, and you DON"T want interference! _________________ My build thread(The desert Rat). http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653395 |
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t-royR Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2012 Posts: 454 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Fastback fuel injection project |
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I was able to cut the clamps off. I now have four working injectors. I will check the ones in the engine tomorrow, and swap them out if those aren't working. _________________ T-roy
75 Super
71 Super
71 Ghia coupe auto-stick
71 Ghia conv
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74 Ghia conv |
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stonecoldcars Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2013 Posts: 265 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Fastback fuel injection project |
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Now that you have the hoses off, take a flash light and look down into the small inlet filter screen and look for debris _________________ My build thread(The desert Rat). http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653395 |
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t-royR Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2012 Posts: 454 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Fastback fuel injection project |
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where does this wire go?
_________________ T-roy
75 Super
71 Super
71 Ghia coupe auto-stick
71 Ghia conv
69 Fasty
74 Ghia conv |
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stonecoldcars Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2013 Posts: 265 Location: Oregon
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