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travis1488 Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2005 Posts: 162 Location: Piedmont MO
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 8:31 am Post subject: Longblock install |
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I have to put a motor in a 73 super. I'll be pulling the old one and switching over to a rebuilt long block. My question is how much Do I charge the guy? I don't want to overcharge but want to make it with my time. I was thinking 200. Is that to high? Thanks |
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enjoyther1de Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2010 Posts: 1279 Location: chino,ca
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Longblock install |
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Depends on who the guy is. Is he a brother or just some dude?
How long will it take you? What's your hourly rate? _________________ HBB took me to BBV. |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31271 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Longblock install |
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travis1488 wrote: |
I have to put a motor in a 73 super. I'll be pulling the old one and switching over to a rebuilt long block. My question is how much Do I charge the guy? I don't want to overcharge but want to make it worth my time. I was thinking 200. Is that to high? Thanks |
Way back in 1976, a former girl friend called me up and asked for my help; her dad had bought a rebuilt longblock for her VW and she asked me to help (OK, do the job) of pulling engine, switching stuff over to the rebuilt, then installing that new engine, at her family's house. Let's just say that it basically took me all day, but no unexpected issues.
I didn't get payment in cash, but let me just say that "a first" that night was how she rewarded me, in my VW (keeping it clean, as practically a "family" site here).
So I don't think $200 is high at all. I think if I was doing this job these days I'd do $300 _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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crukab Samba Chef
Joined: December 13, 2002 Posts: 6115 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Longblock install |
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I'd look over the car I'm pulling the engine from and the location, look for any "Bag of Snakes" type issues, are you doing it at your place ? Or at some Barn/ Storage place/ car owners driveway/no power/concrete flat surface ect.
Is the '73 a runner just needing a engine, or a just needs an engine but has sat for years, as in all the top end stuff could be crap, ever bolt rusted tight, Bad Starter/Clutch... ect.
Plan for problems to avoid them, and charge them as YOU see fit. I'd go no less than $300 for what you described, unless it was a "Bro deal"......... _________________ Tom
My Pops:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=604100&highlight=
I know you will always be with me, rest in peace with no more pain. 8/13/14.....
In the yard right now:
'51 Dodge 5 window truck
'65 Bug
'66 Singlecab
'82 Rabbit Truck Diesel from CALI
'86 Doublecab W/T
'91 Vanagon carat/wolfsbrg.Tiico
'88 Dodge Ram pickup
'11 Jetta Wagon |
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gt1953 Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002 Posts: 13843 Location: White Mountains Arizona
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Longblock install |
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Honestly I think you are a lil low. I swapped out a fuel pump this week. Two 13 mm nuts two hose clamps. 30 minutes, the charge 45.00.
I would tell him/her time and material, is it your tools? Done correctly it will take you all day. Now others will chime in and say oh its a 3 or 4 hr job. Me I would want to clean up all of the tin etc. So it would take me a day or so. Are you breaking the engine in? _________________ Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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Cali_Army_Guy Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2015 Posts: 2094 Location: Stockton, CA
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Longblock install |
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Any real shop is going to charge around $100 a hour to do it. Your not a real shop. $40-50hr is about what my time is worth to give up a day of my life.
$200 seems low to pull a motor, swap over everything to the new long block, and put it all back together. Then you have to clean up any mess you made and clean up all your tools. That all takes time and for me my time is valuable. _________________ 2015 VW Passat Wolfsburg Edition
1966 VW Beetle - Sold |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Longblock install |
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Agreed it's a bit low. It really depends on the condition of all the rest of the engine parts. Late models have more gizmos to go wrong, more hoses to track down, more wiring, more rusty parts, etc. You can get a clean engine out/in in 3 hours easy, but you may spend the rest of the day dealing with a bunch of bent/missing/rusty/broken parts in order for the car to run again. A check of the current state of the engine and bay will tell you which end of this range your job will be. Low end $300, high end $500 is a bargain if you do quality work. |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12816 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Longblock install |
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Where is the car from? A car that has been subjected to salt is going to be a serious PITA & this can add hours to the job. Do they have all new fasteners, exhaust, heat exchangers & gaskets or do you need to transfer old parts? Do you have the necessary tools to remove the flywheel & crank pulley & distributor drive gear? _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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jason Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002 Posts: 3443 Location: Garage
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: Longblock install |
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Takes about 30 minutes to pull a motor taking your time. Theres only 2 nuts, 2 bolts and 3 barrel nuts. Oh, dont forget battery. $200 sounds about right, you dont have the overhead and insurance a shop does.
You remember when they used to have motor pull competitions? They were out in 1-2 minutes. |
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Dave Samba Elder
Joined: July 11, 2002 Posts: 2689 Location: The Forest Moon of Endor, in the Redwoods
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Longblock install |
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2 minutes, 17 seconds. I have the old Super 8 video of Fred Simpson and Rand "Zubie" Foster doing it at the Bug-in waaay back when..and that was run 10 feet to the car, jack it up, put it on jack stands, pull the engine, move the engine back 10 feet, then forward 10 feet, re-install the engine, both get in the car, and drive it forward 10 feet... _________________ 2003 Samba Chummie Winner- Best Story
"Those that matter, don't mind,
and those that mind, don't matter" |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16754 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Longblock install |
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jason wrote: |
Takes about 30 minutes to pull a motor taking your time. Theres only 2 nuts, 2 bolts and 3 barrel nuts. Oh, dont forget battery. $200 sounds about right, you dont have the overhead and insurance a shop does.
You remember when they used to have motor pull competitions? They were out in 1-2 minutes. |
Ok - Enough of the 1/2 hour engine drops. Yeah - you technically can do it, but not too many folks actually do...and why would you? This isnt the pits in a Nascar race.
First of all I am assuming you have done this before. If you have a lift, its not bad, but of you don't its a major pain in the ass. Gotta get the car up in the air and crib it so you dont get killed. Takes time.
Doing an engine swap is not as much hassle as changing things over to another long block. You'll need to install the oil cooler, gen pedestal and the intake and tins (make sure those little cylinder tins are under the clinders). So don't forget you are going to need a gasket set. AND don't forget to adjust the valves. If its a fresh rebuild, you need to do the cam break in as well and an oil change.
Reinstalling an exhaust is always a lot of fun as well (just have new clamps and all that - don't make it more difficult than it needs to be)- and if you have heater boxes, gotta get all that adjusted right - assuming the cable ends arent all rusted.
And while you have it out, you will probably find transaxle mounts that are toast. Assuming you are installing a new clutch. So once its all done, you will probably be expected to tune it and get it running right.
So - starting thinking about the time. (assuming you have a lift)
Get everything disconnected top side. Raise the car and everything done underneath.... about 30-45 min.
Do actual removal - about 30 min.
Strip old engine - assuming no bolts or studs snap or anything is tough to remove (like crank pulley)- about 45-60 min.
Install parts on new long block - 45-60 min.
Adjust valves - 15 min.
Install - 30 min.
Add oil, fire up engine, test for vacuum leaks, set timing, adjust carb - 30 min.
3 hours 45 min IF everything goes smoothly. Don't know about you, but I think that happened only once. Realistically, you will be in it for about 5 hours start to finish. $300 is about right. And yeah - have it taken to a "real" garage and they will pay $75-$100/hour and can pretty much guarantee it will be a 6 to 8 hour job.
Don't sell yourself short....Your knowledge and experience is worth something. You make some money and they save a bunch. BUT I would advise them that the money is just for the swap - if there are any surprises, it's extra. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16803 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: Longblock install |
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^^^^^I agree
you're going to bury a day easily...then fight lining up tins etc. yea, you can have it out in no time, but swapping over the rest is what eats the time _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Longblock install |
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Do you have a supply of flywheel shims? Starter bushing? TO bearing? etc.
See, this thing is, if all you are being paid to do is shove the motor in, and they have no expectations it will run for more than five minutes, you can do it in 2-3 hours.
But I bet they don't want this. I bet they expect it to drive properly, be smooth and reliable, since they are installing "a new engine." But a "new engine" is much more than a long block. A dozen things need to be checked, cleaned, replaced or rebuilt, or it will be an unreliable ride YOU get blamed for messing up.
That's why I ask what condition it is in now, in order to size up the rest of the job. Your reputation and perhaps friendship are on the line if it doesn't go well.
Last edited by KTPhil on Sun May 22, 2016 9:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16754 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 4:26 am Post subject: Re: Longblock install |
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Yeah - KT, minor detail on all of this - actual condition of long block. "Yeah - it's rebuilt...Power washed, painted it and put new gaskets on"
How many of those have we seen? _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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jason Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002 Posts: 3443 Location: Garage
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Longblock install |
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I'm saying 30 minutes from the ground to motor out, taking my time. It's only 4 nuts and 3 cables. Shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to take a single nut off. I'm in no rush either and using a jack and stands. 1.5 hours for removal and install, 6.5 for changing parts. $200 sounds right to me. |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31271 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Longblock install |
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jason wrote: |
I'm saying 30 minutes from the ground to motor out, taking my time. It's only 4 nuts and 3 cables. Shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to take a single nut off. I'm in no rush either and using a jack and stands. 1.5 hours for removal and install, 6.5 for changing parts. $200 sounds right to me. |
And rear tin.
And fuel line.
And battery disconnect.
And wires.
And pull accelerator cable through.
And heater box tubes disconnect.
Sometimes exhaust.
As Yul Brynner said: "Etc., etc., etc."
_________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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