Suspension adventures, King pin/IRS, learned lots...a few Q's ?

[ve7kilohertz]

My son and I have been working on our buggy now for 3 weeks and are really looking forward to getting it on the road. This week I decided I wanted to tackle the suspension and get everything done that needed doing so we can get the body on and get at the wiring and seats etc. I started by mounting the engine and placing several of my spare Bobcat wheel/tire combos on the trans-axle to simulate body load. I studied the Samba for a few days prior to doing this so when the time came to index the rear torsion tubes, it was a breeze. Thanks all! Caps came off easily, found urethane outer bushings already installed, and the torsion rod was like new, with anti-seize one the inside end, but the spring plate was frozen onto the outer end of the shaft. Quick application of propane torch and tapping with a hammer freed it and once out I wire wheeled the splines and applied anti-seize. Made sure everything was smooth and easy to remove and then started to figure out the angle I wanted. When I got the buggy there was so much preload on the springs that there was ZERO suspension travel, they were hard against the bottom stops, even 2 guys jumping up and down on the back couldn't get it to move. So I basically started from scratch, and set it so that the spring plate sits about 3/8-1/2" off the bottom stop, giving lots of vertical travel. With the simulated body load of Bobcat wheels and me standing on the back, I can get nice smooth suspension travel now. I read somewhere, that you want about 25% down travel and 75% up on the rear suspension, I may have a little less than 25% with only 1/2" gap there, but it sits nicely now, axles are on a bit of a decline from the center out to the ends. Your thoughts on this adjustment? I am more concerned with suspension working correctly, than ride height. I also wanted to get the toe out set correctly and found that I ran out of adjustment in the spring plate slots so I had to open up the ends of the slots, and die grid out the inner slot, to get me another 1/2" of travel. I can now get ZERO toe, but can't quite get any greater. Hoping this will be adequate. I know a little toe out is desired as the wheels pull in when driven.

Then came the front end...again reading several days on the topic of torsion spring leaves, removing them, tube adjusters, solid upper rods etc. I decided to go old school and cut the small half leaves into 6" sections and tack weld them onto the full size leaves, both sets in the upper tube. I put it back together and it was still hard on the suspension stops, with virtually no travel, so I did the same on the bottom tube, only this time I removed all the half leaves and saved them, and just used the remnants of the cut leaves from the upper tubes as filler and tacked them into place. To make insertion back into the trailing arms easier, I beveled all the outside ends of the leaf pack with the grinder. I then put all the leaves back in except for one of the big ones in the middle of the pack, pushed them through until they were set in the opposite side trailing arm, then pushed in the middle plate, had to tap in with a hammer the last few inches but it was a breeze. Make sure you grease all surfaces of the leaves before inserting them. If it was a cleaner job, I would have stopped for some pictures but its messy, no getting around it.

After both tubes' springs had been modified, I tried the old jump/bounce test...just right. Sitting on the stops with no load and when bouncing I can get it about halfway. Once the body, seats and such are installed, it should be great.

Last thing I need to find are the caster shims for the bottom tube. Anyone home make them or are they a "purchase only" item? What thickness is recommended?

A few buggy friends showed up on the weekend and one of them told me about wheel alignment using jack stands and string...will have to investigate that and give it a try.

That's it for now.

Cheers

Installing the engine....love having the machinery, took about 3 minutes.

[rugblaster]

I've used 2 3/8 structural pipe for shims......it is about 1/4 inch thick....you would just have to try it and check the caster on a alignment rack. Probably going to need longer bolts for the two bottom ones too.
_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!!

[ve7kilohertz]

[Bermoco]

Caster shims already made are relatively inexpensive.

ACC-C10-4190 - CASTER ADJUSTING SHIMS FOR ALL BEETLE/GHIA (EXCEPT SUPER BEETLE) SOLD PAIR
$8.49 at cip1

[BL3Manx]

A section of pipe would have a larger O.D so it wouldn't fit correctly in the frame head and probably cause wear/damage if you did. The shim has to have a crescent cross section, thick in the center tapering to nothing at top and bottom

$8.50 very well spent!

[ve7kilohertz]

OKay thanks guys....yes appreciate that it is easy to buy them....but I want to get this done and get the body back on......and being in Canada...anything from the US takes 2 weeks and is a pain in the rear. Maybe CIP1 Canada will be faster......a week....but still.

Thanks all...it's so close we can taste it...won't make any difference though if it keeps raining. We'll just order them.

Cheers

[tgodber]

Reading about shims it was stated that unless your front-end is slammed you should not need them. If chassis is close to level no need for shims. Did I miss something?

[slalombuggy]

[ve7kilohertz]

Thanks guys, appreciate the input. Yes, I saw that sometimes shims are not needed, but with 30-9.50-15's on the rear and 185-70R15 on the front, the chassis is a bit out of level, as well the back end is just about on the bottom stops, I have modified the front springs for softer ride and to get the trailing arms off the stops. I should get it on some pavement and make some measurements, but I am just going on what it seems 90% of buggy guys say..."put in the shims".

We'll carry on with the reassembly and order the shims and give 'em a try. Seems easy enough to put in/take out. Just thinking, putting them in might also move the shock towers back enough to eliminate the need to modify the towers that are rubbing on the body.

Cheers

[rugblaster]

Yes, If your not capable of doing the machine work, then by all means waste money on store bought Chinese pieces......
_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!!

[EVfun]

I would run 1 set of caster wedges in a nearly level buggy as 2 sets if the front end was slammed (longer bolts required with 2 sets.) Buggies tend to be quite light up front so a little extra caster improves their tracking while steering still remains lighter than a stock Bug.
_________________

[BL3Manx]

The other factor is that not a lot of buggies run stock width front tires, they run wider rims and fatter tires with more offset which pretty much neurtalizes any tendency to self center. The short wheelbase doesn't help either

More caster and trail is pretty much always a noticable improvement

[ve7kilohertz]

Again...thanks for the help everyone.....as Canada is on holidays today, I decided to do some other work...work on caster later..

Figured out the steering column and rebuilt the bearings...got the steering wheel mounted and horn figured out, as well as the signal light switch...a good day of work.

Also cut the shock towers, don't know if that is the right place, but it worked...next buggy I may cut tower nearer the natural bend above the axle, but this turned out pretty well. You can see the pie piece I cut out sitting on the beam.

cheers