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A Few Wiring Questions
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ArthritisMaster
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 6:46 pm    Post subject: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

Hello all, I have two questions regarding the wiring on the hazard switch and turn signal relay on my 1973 Type 1. My first question has to do with the hazard switch. As you know, there is the white wire with the red tracer that splits into two from the switch (and one feeds the dash lights somehow when the hazards are on?) and the other goes under the dash to the heater lever spotlight. I am confused on where the wire hooks up to the dash (if it does) and then travels down to the little spotlight. Also, on the turn signal relay on the fuse block, there are several grounds on mine, it splits into one and keeps going into regular spade connectors until it reaches a tiny 2.8mm spade connector at the end. Where do these grounds hook up? Thank you, any help on this subject is very much appreciated! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 6:57 pm    Post subject: Re: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

That grey/red wire is the dash light circuit, it makes the switch glow at night. You'll have to consult the diagram to determine where it gets it's power from, it may connect directly to the headlight switch, the diagram will tell you. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiringt1.php

The small brown spade is likely on the brake warning light, once again look at the diagram.
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ArthritisMaster
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

Thank you for the reply, I already have the instrument red/white wire from the light switch that lights the cluster, so I was wondering where the one from the hazard switch goes, also on the ground from the signal relay, I will try that on the brake warning light but should I ground that on different points along the way to the light?
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 8:33 am    Post subject: Re: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

The grey/red wire comes from the headlight switch #58b terminal. This terminal powers all the illumination lamps. At night this will cause your E-Flasher switch to glow dimly so you can easily find it. This grey/red wire daisy chains its way to different devices. First it stops at the E-Flasher switch and then ends at the heater lever illumination lamp.

The brown ground wires can go to multiple spots behind the dash. My Beetle had a male spade welded to the trunk where multiple brown wires came together. There is typically also a spade on the mounting screw for the speedo where multiple brown wires come together or start a chain of connections. As long as the #31 terminal on the flasher relay is grounded it will work fine.
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ArthritisMaster
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply, I will try to hook those up and tell you how it goes!
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ArthritisMaster
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:16 am    Post subject: Re: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

Sorry for the late reply but I have something new. When I turn the key on, all the lights come on like normal but the flasher light on the dash comes on (solid greed, no flash) until I move the turn signal switch left or right. They still do not blink but the light changes on the dash depending on where the turn signal switch is. The hazards work only when I touch the green and red wire together on the hazard switch (the clicking also works) but after a while it blows the fuse. I am not sure if I have a bad signal switch because the Bright/Dimmer relay clicks when I pull the dimmer back but the high beam warning light on the dash stays on constantly when the key is on. Any ideas on this? Thank you!
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ashman40
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

ArthritisMaster wrote:
When I turn the key on, all the lights come on like normal but the flasher light on the dash comes on (solid greed, no flash) until I move the turn signal switch left or right. They still do not blink but the light changes on the dash depending on where the turn signal switch is.

Try the following test which will bypass the turn signal switch completely...
    Turn the ignition ON.
    Disconnect the wire to the turn signal indicator lamp in the speedo (keep it from grounding).
    Run a jumper wire from the #49a terminal of the flasher relay (use the turn signal indicator wire if it runs to #49a) to the 4-way junction where the four black/white wires come together. This is where the left turn signal lamps get their power from. By connecting the jumper here you bypass the left turn signal switch position. Your left side turn signals should flash.
    Move the jumper wire to the 4-way junction for the black/green wires. The right side turn signals should flash.

If the test works as expected, your corner wiring is good and your flasher relay is somewhat functional, but could still be faulty.... read on.

Next, with the ignition still ON, take your jumper wire and use it to ground the male tab of the turn signal indicator lamp in the speedo. One end of the wire goes to the male spade of the bulb holder, the other end goes to ground. Your turn signal indicator lamp should turn ON.
Reconnect your turn signal indicator as normal (turn indicator lamp wire runs to the #49a terminal of the flasher relay). Re run all the tests listed above to bypass your turn signal switch. All the tests should work the same, but this time the turn signal indicator lamp should flash in opposition to the corner lamps. If the turn signals do not flash as expected then your flasher relay is suspect. Are you running the proper European flasher relay for your Beetle?


ArthritisMaster wrote:
The hazards work only when I touch the green and red wire together on the hazard switch (the clicking also works) but after a while it blows the fuse.

The green wire is #15 and the red wire is #30. The red wire should have a constant 12v+. Confirm this with a voltmeter or test lamp.
It sounds like your flasher switch internals may be bad. Has the backing cover of the switch come loose? This is a common problem.

ArthritisMaster wrote:
I am not sure if I have a bad signal switch because the Bright/Dimmer relay clicks when I pull the dimmer back but the high beam warning light on the dash stays on constantly when the key is on. Any ideas on this? Thank you!

The headlight dimmer switch is a simple contact switch on the inside of the turn signal arm. If the contacts are stuck CLOSED the high beams will stay ON. Also the dimmer relay will be energized all the time.
The dimmer switch is separate from the turn signal switch. One can go bad while the other works fine.
Disconnect and test your turn signal switch. It is made up of three wires. Stock colors were :
    black/green/white wire : input wire from the #49a terminal of the flasher relay
    black/white : left output that runs to the 4-way junction
    black/green : right output that runs to the 4-way junction

When you turn the switch to the left of the right the input wire is connected to the left of the right output wires. Use a test lamp or multi meter to test this. Also make sure none of the wires are grounding at any time.
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ArthritisMaster
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 10:06 am    Post subject: Re: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

Thank you for the instructions! I did not try the other steps that you specified yet, but I did try hooking up the 49a wire from the relay to the turn signals. They did not flash but I want to make sure I am hooking them up to the right area here. Very Happy Thanks for the help!

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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

ashman40 wrote:
Are you running the proper European flasher relay for your Beetle?


That may just be my issue even though it does flash when crossing the wires. I am using one that I picked up from Advance Auto that fit the 73 Type 1. All I had to do according to the terminal I.D. on the package was move the ground from right to left. The "expert" said the flasher was universal in older cars that used these forms of flasher relays. I may just return it and buy one online like this http://www.autohausaz.com/pn/1H0953227 and then I will tell you how it goes. But for now I am working on bypassing the relay if this is the case.
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

ArthritisMaster wrote:
Thank you for the instructions! I did not try the other steps that you specified yet, but I did try hooking up the 49a wire from the relay to the turn signals. They did not flash but I want to make sure I am hooking them up to the right area here. Very Happy Thanks for the help!

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That 4-way junction electrically connects all four wires together so it doesn't matter where you connect it. Jumping the #49a wire to any portion of that junction should allow it to power all four wires. Just slip the jumper wire into the junction next to one of the existing wires until it makes electrical contact.
In reality only two wires are outputs so you really need only these two connected.

Where is the fourth wire in that junction? Did you disconnect it just for testing? For each 4-way junction:
    One INPUT wire comes from the E-flasher switch
    One INPUT wire comes from the turn signal switch
    One OUTPUT wire goes to the front turn signal
    One OUTPUT wire goes to the rear turn signal


Add an extra test, run a jumper wire from a fused 12v source on the fuse box and connect it to the 4-way junctions. This should light up the corner lights but they won't flash. This proves the wiring to the corner lights and the lights themselves work.
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ArthritisMaster
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

Yes, I did disconnect the other wire that you see missing because I thought that the indicator wire from 49a had to go into the junction. I believe I tried it with both wires in and with the one out. The signals did not seem to do anything. I believe it may be the relay that is not the proper one. I will check one out and tell you how it goes!
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 9:50 pm    Post subject: Re: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

ArthritisMaster wrote:
Yes, I did disconnect the other wire that you see missing because I thought that the indicator wire from 49a had to go into the junction. I believe I tried it with both wires in and with the one out. The signals did not seem to do anything. I believe it may be the relay that is not the proper one. I will check one out and tell you how it goes!

Run the test above where you jumper a wire from a constant 12v+ source on the fuse box to the 4-way junction. This should light up the corner turn lights on one side. Test both 4-ways. At least this will tell you if the turn lights in the corners are working properly. Look at the brightness of each bulb. They should be similar in all four corners.
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ArthritisMaster
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

Well, it has been quite a while and my German flasher relay finally came in. Still the same results, I put the 49a wire into both 4 way junctions but still there was nothing! The problem lies now in either the turn signal switch or the hazard switch right? Thanks!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

Oh wait! A source from the fuse box. I misread that! I will try that jumper. (Oops)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

Ok, so I did the jumper wire and the right side lit up normally but the left side did not light up. I changed some wires under and tried again and the left side was very bright! My last thought is that the flasher relay may not be getting power normally since when I touched the green and red wire together on the hazard switch, the hazards worked for a few seconds before blowing a fuse.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

Just so it is clear, the red wire connected to the #30 terminal of the E-Flasher switch is constant 12v coming from fuse #8 (E-Flasher fuse). When the E-Flasher switch is ON, the #30 terminal is shorted (connected to) the #49 (+) output terminal of the E-Flasher switch. #49 powers the flasher relay.

When the E-Flasher switch is OFF, the #15 terminal is instead shorted to the #49 terminal. This is powered by the green (or black) wire which gets power from the ignition switch. This should be the wire from fuse #12 and only has 12v when the ignition is in the ON position.

When you touch the red and green wires together I'm thinking you are giving the #15 wire power from the #30 constant 12v red wire. This would tell me the green wire isn't powered when it should be.
So, when the E-Flasher switch is OFF, fuse #12 powers the white #49 wire which powers the flasher relay. If the white wire does not have 12v while the ignition is in the ON position, but the green wire on #15 does, the E-Flasher switch is internally broken. If the green wire does not have 12v when the ignition switch is ON, then your problem is upstream with the fuse box or the wire from the fuse box to the E-Flasher switch. Check these wires and find out where the power is missing.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:33 pm    Post subject: Re: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

Ashman, should I test the white wire at the end (on the flasher relay) or at the source (the hazard switch)? Also, when the flasher relay is on a constant power source, should it click constantly or just click every time it is connected to ground or power? Because I connected my new relay (49 to + battery terminal and 31 to - terminal) and it clicked when I connected the power. I thought it clicks automatically when connected to straight power. Question
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

ArthritisMaster wrote:
Ashman, should I test the white wire at the end (on the flasher relay) or at the source (the hazard switch)?

When the E-Flasher switch provides power to the white wire on the #49 terminal, both ends of the white wire should read the same voltage.

Test:
    With the ignition switch OFF, test the green (or black) wire on the #15 terminal of the E-Flasher switch. There should be 0-volts.
    Test that the #30 red wire has 12v.
    Test that the #49 white wire has 0-volts.
    Turn the ignition switch to ON position.
    Now check that the green wire has 12v at the #15 terminal. And that there is now also 12v on both ends of the white wire.

If the green wire has 12v and the white wire does not, your E-Flasher switch is failed. If one end of the white wire has 12v but the other doesn't, you have a bad wire or connection.


ArthritisMaster wrote:
Also, when the flasher relay is on a constant power source, should it click constantly or just click every time it is connected to ground or power? Because I connected my new relay (49 to + battery terminal and 31 to - terminal) and it clicked when I connected the power. I thought it clicks automatically when connected to straight power. Question

The European-style flasher relay used in the Beetle is a "load sensing" flasher relay. This means it starts flashing when it detects power being drawn from the OUTPUT terminal (#49a). Connecting it directly to a 12v source on the #49 terminal and grounding #31 terminal is equivalent to turning the ignition ON but not yet moving the turn signal lever to the L or R position. The #31 terminal is NOT the OUTPUT terminal of the relay. It provides a ground source so the relay can be in a "ready" state when there is power on the INPUT #49 terminal. Having the proper load on #49a is what "activates" the relay.
The load on the #49a needs to be in the 21W x2 range for it to flash normally. If the load is low (eg. only one 21W bulb) the flasher relay should "quick flash" as an indicator to the driver that one of the turn signal bulbs may be burnt out. Extra load (21W x4) does not change anything as this is the common load when the E-flasher switch is ON.
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'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

So ashman, I conducted your test and the green wire from fuse 12 had 11.5 or so volts because the battery was a little low today. The white wire however did not have any voltage, the switch is broken! Now this is a strange occurance but I took the white wire from the e switch and connected it to fuse 12 itself. When I turned the key on, like you said, it clicked once. This is where it is strange. When I turned the turn signal switch to the left, the flasher relay made the KEY BUZZER sound! I though I bought the wrong relay but it has the 31,49, and 49a terminals and it said flasher when I purchased it from the vw place. Now I plugged it into the key buzzer wires (normally on a buzzer: 81 and I think 1) and when I touched the door contact switch, the relay made the turn signal noise (one click each depress of the switch)! What is this madness? Confused
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: A Few Wiring Questions Reply with quote

So ashman, I conducted your test and the green wire from fuse 12 had 11.5 or so volts because the battery was a little low today. The white wire however did not have any voltage, the switch is broken! Now this is a strange occurance but I took the white wire from the e switch and connected it to fuse 12 itself. When I turned the key on, like you said, it clicked once. This is where it is strange. When I turned the turn signal switch to the left, the flasher relay made the KEY BUZZER sound! I though I bought the wrong relay but it has the 31,49, and 49a terminals and it said flasher when I purchased it from the vw place. Now I plugged it into the key buzzer wires (normally on a buzzer: 81 and I think 1) and when I touched the door contact switch, the relay made the turn signal noise (one click each depress of the switch)! What is this madness? Confused
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