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Is the economy really as bad as they say?
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jspbtown
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

Quote:
borrowing at 0% interest does not mean you got a good deal Rolling Eyes
It means they needed to unload something no one wise was willing to buy...



Well I am not going to get into a debate with you on whether a 0% loan is a "good deal" or not. Everyone can make their own choices. Personally if I had a chance to borrow money at 0% I would.

I am also not going to list any of the 2 dozen plus models (foreign and domestic) that Edmunds lists as having 0% financing right now since I know it will become a debate about which cars people like and which cars people hate.

And if you have coffee cans and 5 gallons buckets full of money how are you paying 6% to people and earning more? As I understand it...money in buckets just depreciates in value.
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

I think we might be getting sidetracked by the example of an auto loan.

The point is the 0% loan, not what you are buying.

Yes, if you have money just sitting in cans, you are losing money due to inflation.
If inflation is 2% per year, you are losing 2% per year if your money is just sitting in cans.
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

interesting stuff guys. I enjoy reading stuff like this, from people who do "play" with money.

I guess my biggest hang up is letting someone else do it for me. I suppose that I am a control freak in that sense. I would rather buy a car (for example) and flip it for a 5-700 profit and just be in control of the money.

accounting for inflation is a pretty important thing to consider as well.
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Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

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Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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TDCTDI
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

The biggest thing being ignored is the fact that all investment contracts immediately state that the money that you give them may be lost (they get to gamble your money with absolutely nothing to lose.). I've known lots of people that wish that they didn't let someone else gamble their money. Just two (ok, maybe three.) generations ago, many people lost everything & never again put money in a bank much less the stock market.
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

If all these investment geniuses are so smart and know what they are talking about, why aren't they all billionaires?
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

TDCTDI wrote:
The biggest thing being ignored is the fact that all investment contracts immediately state that the money that you give them may be lost (they get to gamble your money with absolutely nothing to lose.). I've known lots of people that wish that they didn't let someone else gamble their money. Just two (ok, maybe three.) generations ago, many people lost everything & never again put money in a bank much less the stock market.


Many people lost everything 8 years ago too. Those that were positioned better and survived seem to think those that didn't survive are to blame for their own demise. They are wrong, not everybody was up to their eyeballs in debt, as the pundits like to point out. Some were lower middle class that lost because big banks, big insurance and big investors were gambling with the money.

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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 11:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

Dwayne1m wrote:
If all these investment geniuses are so smart and know what they are talking about, why aren't they all billionaires?


I'll answer that - because a lot of them work for their clients and stay within the law.
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 4:29 am    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
Dwayne1m wrote:
If all these investment geniuses are so smart and know what they are talking about, why aren't they all billionaires?


I'll answer that - because a lot of them work for their clients and stay within the law.


I worked with a guy who worshiped money and he praised all these money guys on TV for being super smart and never making a bad decision. If these guys were that smart in my opinion, nobody would be losing any money by following their recommendations and playing the stock market would be simple as ABC, but I don't see these guys as anything special. If they want to stay "within the law" for their clients I understand that but it seems misleading to me. It all reminds me of another guy I worked with when I was a teenager. He played the horses and it was his life. He studied everything he could about the horses, the jockeys and track conditions including the weather. He never struck it big so all his "knowledge" was a waste. Picking a horse out of a hat did about as good as he did.
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
Dwayne1m wrote:
If all these investment geniuses are so smart and know what they are talking about, why aren't they all billionaires?


I'll answer that - because a lot of them work for their clients and stay within the law.


well, we hope that is the case. again, I have never invested anything in the market. one thing that a guy who did pretty well in the market told me was kind of interesting....

he said that when he started to invest he did small amounts...perhaps 2-3k if I recall. what he would do is "let it ride" until he was able to pull his initial investment out, then he would use the money that he earned and invest that, essentially "playing with their money" as he put it

it was like a full time job for him, and he was always calling the money guy and moving money around. again, this was some time ago and he did do pretty well....


now in terms of folks losing their asses in the 08 disaster, any good money person will tell you to haul your $$$ out of high risk stuff what, 3-4 years before you retire and plop it into something safe (like some kind of savings account) you have to wonder how many people were advised NOT to do that in 08....I wonder if that's why the economy is still a bit slow...some folks had to work another 5+ years to make up the difference I guess?
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

Dwayne1m wrote:
EverettB wrote:
Dwayne1m wrote:
If all these investment geniuses are so smart and know what they are talking about, why aren't they all billionaires?


I'll answer that - because a lot of them work for their clients and stay within the law.


I worked with a guy who worshiped money and he praised all these money guys on TV for being super smart and never making a bad decision. If these guys were that smart in my opinion, nobody would be losing any money by following their recommendations and playing the stock market would be simple as ABC, but I don't see these guys as anything special. If they want to stay "within the law" for their clients I understand that but it seems misleading to me. It all reminds me of another guy I worked with when I was a teenager. He played the horses and it was his life. He studied everything he could about the horses, the jockeys and track conditions including the weather. He never struck it big so all his "knowledge" was a waste. Picking a horse out of a hat did about as good as he did.


the guys are TV are selling their "theory" of making $$$. That $189.99 they sell their "theory" to you for IS their business and how they make the money.

best thing you can do is ask a financial adviser to see HIS portfolio to determine if he's the right person to guide you with yours...
surprising how many financial "adviser's" are in the same boat as the rest of the crowd....

I have a buddy who works for a big firm my way. his career has taken him from "advising" clients to managing the office full of the "adviser's"...
Bottom line, he's upside down with his mortgage, drives a prius...
knows the game, but doesn't seem to play it too well..It's just a job....
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 2:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

It's like going to see a doctor for your annual checkup and while he is clearly overweight and smokes, he tells you to exercise and watch what you eat. That is exactly what happened to a guy I work with that has diabetes. He wanted to tell the doctor to look in the mirror.

I see these "experts" as selling a service to you. You are paying them to play with your money. If they make a profit, great. If they don't it doesn't come out of their wallet. Much easier to gamble with other peoples money.
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

After a fair amount of financial education, and some understanding of Einstein's Theory of General Relativity, I only know two things for certain:

1) There is no free lunch
2) No one can predict the future

Some money managers can beat the market for short periods. Very, very few can beat the market year after year. On average, actively managed portfolios don't beat the market. The good advisers help you manage risk and guide your decisions based on your situation; anyone who says they have the secret to consistently beating the market is lying.
The only way to increase expected returns is to take on more risk. Historically, the stock market returns far more than safer investments, but it can be a roller coaster in between. If you don't have the stomach for it, or if you are within a few years of needing the money, don't invest in stocks. In the long run it's the best way to build wealth, but you have to hang on through the dips. I know people that panicked and sold out at the bottom in 2009, and missed the recovery that would have brought them back to positive.

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

Back to the original topic, I actually think the economy is worse than they say, there used to be the unemployment rate, it is now the "first time unemployment rate", suddenly the numbers look much better because people reapplying aren't counted, neither are the ones that have "given up". Those people don't just give up looking for work, they have found another source of revenue, either through entrepreneurialism or the government.
Unemployment is effectively paid for at the state level by "taxing" businesses.
The states have found that they can decrease their unemployment liability by transferring those people onto the federal program of disability. Now the states no longer have to pay for those individuals & the president gets to say that unemployment numbers have gone down, & the people on it don't want to work for fear of losing their primary income.
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

TDCTDI wrote:
Back to the original topic, I actually think the economy is worse than they say, there used to be the unemployment rate, it is now the "first time unemployment rate", suddenly the numbers look much better because people reapplying aren't counted, neither are the ones that have "given up". Those people don't just give up looking for work, they have found another source of revenue, either through entrepreneurialism or the government.
Unemployment is effectively paid for at the state level by "taxing" businesses.
The states have found that they can decrease their unemployment liability by transferring those people onto the federal program of disability. Now the states no longer have to pay for those individuals & the president gets to say that unemployment numbers have gone down, & the people on it don't want to work for fear of losing their primary income.


Agreed.

entitlements are the downfall of it all..

-SS is nothing more than a pyramid scheme...
-unemployment-encouragement for not working
-welfare-same as above

-disability???-stephen hawkins seems to do well without the handout....
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

vwinnovator wrote:

-disability???-stephen hawkins seems to do well without the handout....


Exactly! All those other lazy disabled folks need to (metaphorically) get off their asses and get busy developing theories to explain the quantum mechanics of spacetime.
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

Moderator time:
Let's not get into political stuff please.
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 10:42 am    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
Moderator time:
Let's not get into political stuff please.


X2...please?

TDI and innovator did bring up some good points though....I think (and do believe) the #'s are skewed quite a bit.

I think with the new "do more with less" that big companies have been telling people when they lay off/don't fill positions has filtered down to the mom and pop places and quite frankly, small businesses are just afraid to hire despite the fact they may be booked for weeks/months.

they are "doing more with less" and working a bit harder to avoid hiring. I mean look at mc dumpsters....they are trying out the self order/self serve machines.

it has been my observation that in election cycles the economy does some crazy shit. that may be part of it as well
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my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
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Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

Wendy's is joining the self order kiosk trend too to get ahead of the demanded $15/hr min wage. Soon, the entry level job will be in the "remember when" topic.
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

TDCTDI wrote:
Wendy's is joining the self order kiosk trend too to get ahead of the demanded $15/hr min wage. Soon, the entry level job will be in the "remember when" topic.


Hmmmmm I think very soon after that cranky old guys that dwell in the past are going to be a topic that won't be missed. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the economy really as bad as they say? Reply with quote

Great advice

Last edited by Zundfolge1432 on Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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