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advise on an 1835 build please.
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chubby53
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 4:11 pm    Post subject: advise on an 1835 build please. Reply with quote

i'm building my first motor ever. For a baja. Using an H-block with 10mm studs. i have the crank done and test fit, turns smooth in case when bolted together. I do not have the cam yet. I was refered to get a web 218 cam(on order). Also refered to get Steve Tims stage 1 heads. I was looking at DRD L5 heads also? any pros or cons going with either or?
Also refered to get "elephant feet" adjusters and solid rockers.
with those adjusters and dual high rev springs, do i need beefier pushrods, or can i use stock.
with the cam, do i assemble timming like normal, or am i suppose to "advance" cam? if so how to and how much?
I will be running 36mm dells and for now stock heater boxes with header and stinger until i can find the money needed for 1-1/2" heater boxes and 1-1/2" merged headers.
I'm sure i will have a million more questions. Please help me. I've done a ton of searches and a lot of reading, unfortunately it all starts to blur. Please help me.
OH, one other thing is my compression ratio. with the DRD heads it says chambers are approx 67MM, is that the deck hieght of the head?
Steve Tims heads say "ported Chambers 60CC with no step. so would the deck hieght on those be 60cc? and what is no step?
OH yeah, back to compression. what is a good compression ratio to run at. It will be a dune/mountain/mudding/and street/highway driven baja.

Thanks again I really do appreciate this.
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: advise on an 18345 build please. Reply with quote

Run that cam at 8.25:1, and deck height .040-.060".

Calculate the CC to get that compression. I don't know what size engine you are building or I would have done it for you.
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chubby53
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: advise on an 1835 build please. Reply with quote

sorry, fat fingered the title. I'm building 1835.
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: advise on an 1835 build please. Reply with quote

55cc and .050" DH gets you 8.25:1 in an 1835. Nice combo.
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chubby53
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: advise on an 1835 build please. Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
55cc and .050" DH gets you 8.25:1 in an 1835. Nice combo.

So 55cc in the head and .050" in the cylinder from top of piston to top of cylinder at TDC?
Also, what does "no step" mean?
sorry if my questins seem lame. I feel like such a newb.
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: advise on an 1835 build please. Reply with quote

Some guys (like me) abhor a step in the head. This is a ring around the chamber where the cylinder sets against. It truly confuses people.

Heads are available with and without the step. EVERYTHING is easier if you get heads without it. If you have a stepped head, there are a lot of ways you can screw up the build.

Most everything is covered in this thread

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=573845

chubby53 wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
55cc and .050" DH gets you 8.25:1 in an 1835. Nice combo.

So 55cc in the head and .050" in the cylinder from top of piston to top of cylinder at TDC?
Also, what does "no step" mean?
sorry if my questins seem lame. I feel like such a newb.

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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: advise on an 1835 build please. Reply with quote

chubby53 wrote:
Also refered to get Steve Tims stage 1 heads. I was looking at DRD L5 heads also? any pros or cons going with either or?


I will be running 36mm dells


It will be a dune/mountain/mudding/and street/highway driven baja.



L5s ports would be way too big for the size engine you are trying to build.

Tims stage 1s will have a 40mm valve but the ports are supposed to be smaller that the L5s.

Personally, I would run a set of ported stock valve size heads since you will be offroad a lot and in a Baja with larger tires could use MORE power in the 2000 to 4000 rpm range.

L3s or ported Super stock heads from tims.... no need for a 40mm intake valve with 36mm carbs...
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youngnstudly wrote:
I just wasn't sure if I should recommend the 1/3 race cam, the 1/2 race cam, or the 5/8 race cam instead...guess it depends on how much of the race he wants to lead???
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: advise on an 1835 build please. Reply with quote

So Tims "super stock" heads?
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: advise on an 1835 build please. Reply with quote

I think L5s are too much for this engine. L3s would work very well.
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: advise on an 1835 build please. Reply with quote

L3s should be great. Figure out if you need dual springs or not, IMO with 1.1 rockers you'd be at the border of needing them, but I did run that cam in a 1641 with L3s and single springs. You could order it ground on 112LC for even more low end grunt.

My 1835 had budget 40x35 heads I got from John, they worked also, but not with heater boxes. But they'll need cleanup, L3s shouldn't.

Stan
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: advise on an 1835 build please. Reply with quote

Tims or DRD, you decide.
In either case you can order the heads to be flycut to be whatever CC you want before they ship them to you.

They have to bore them to fit the cylinders, it is easy to do this at the same time.
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: advise on an 1835 build please. Reply with quote

Okay so Tims are 37x32 and DRD L3 are 35.5x32.
Would 1.5 mm make any difference good or bad? With whatever heads I get should I Have them ported? Or matched to my manifolds?
With single HD springs can I get away with stock pushrods?
If I went to 1.25:1 rockers what would that change? What requirements if any would be a good idea to have.
Thanks again guys
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 8:06 pm    Post subject: Re: advise on an 1835 build please. Reply with quote

I have not seen the Tims super stock, but just going from their heads I HAVE seen, I assume they know what they are doing.
one VS another?
A 37mm valve and .420 lift, and a 35.5mm valve and .460 lift might accomplish the same thing. For street engines, I'd rather go with the bigger valve/less lift combo, but it's debatable which is better. You use good parts, and the valve train will last a very long time even with a lot of lift.

The web 218 cam has a lot of lift at the cam. With stock pushrods you may run out of travel and have the edge of the "cup" (where the pushrod sits in the rocker) hit the side of the pushrod. Using aftermarket pushrods this won't be a problem.
Stock pushrods might live if you know how to stretch them and clearance the rockers, and are lucky, but lets assume you aren't lucky, in which case your money is better spent on some .035 wall manton pushrods, or ACN aluminum pushrods which will be a lot easier to make them the right length and not worry about flex and clearance.
If you use swivel adjusters then you will need to shim the rockers at least .060, if you end up milling the heads .060, it might end up needing stock length pushrods, but don't bet money on it!

A 35.5 valve, or a 37mm valve, .460 is plenty of lift, so you don't need higher ratio rockers with a web 218. A valve usually LIKES to be lifted 0.3 to 0.35xdiameter.
Lifting it more than it needs may have as many downsides as upsides.
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: advise on an 1835 build please. Reply with quote

modok wrote:
I have not seen the Tims super stock, but just going from their heads I HAVE seen, I assume they know what they are doing.
one VS another?
A 37mm valve and .420 lift, and a 35.5mm valve and .460 lift might accomplish the same thing. For street engines, I'd rather go with the bigger valve/less lift combo, but it's debatable which is better. You use good parts, and the valve train will last a very long time even with a lot of lift.

The web 218 cam has a lot of lift at the cam. With stock pushrods you may run out of travel and have the edge of the "cup" (where the pushrod sits in the rocker) hit the side of the pushrod. Using aftermarket pushrods this won't be a problem.
Stock pushrods might live if you know how to stretch them and clearance the rockers, and are lucky, but lets assume you aren't lucky, in which case your money is better spent on some .035 wall manton pushrods, or ACN aluminum pushrods which will be a lot easier to make them the right length and not worry about flex and clearance.
If you use swivel adjusters then you will need to shim the rockers at least .060, if you end up milling the heads .060, it might end up needing stock length pushrods, but don't bet money on it!

A 35.5 valve, or a 37mm valve, .460 is plenty of lift, so you don't need higher ratio rockers with a web 218. A valve usually LIKES to be lifted 0.3 to 0.35xdiameter.
Lifting it more than it needs may have as many downsides as upsides.

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: advise on an 1835 build please. Reply with quote

modok wrote:
I have not seen the Tims super stock, but just going from their heads I HAVE seen, I assume they know what they are doing.
one VS another?
A 37mm valve and .420 lift, and a 35.5mm valve and .460 lift might accomplish the same thing. For street engines, I'd rather go with the bigger valve/less lift combo, but it's debatable which is better. You use good parts, and the valve train will last a very long time even with a lot of lift.

The web 218 cam has a lot of lift at the cam. With stock pushrods you may run out of travel and have the edge of the "cup" (where the pushrod sits in the rocker) hit the side of the pushrod. Using aftermarket pushrods this won't be a problem.
Stock pushrods might live if you know how to stretch them and clearance the rockers, and are lucky, but lets assume you aren't lucky, in which case your money is better spent on some .035 wall manton pushrods, or ACN aluminum pushrods which will be a lot easier to make them the right length and not worry about flex and clearance.
If you use swivel adjusters then you will need to shim the rockers at least .060, if you end up milling the heads .060, it might end up needing stock length pushrods, but don't bet money on it!

A 35.5 valve, or a 37mm valve, .460 is plenty of lift, so you don't need higher ratio rockers with a web 218. A valve usually LIKES to be lifted 0.3 to 0.35xdiameter.
Lifting it more than it needs may have as many downsides as upsides.


Sorry pressed the wrong button.
Anyways... I think I'm going o go with Tims super stock heads 37x32 valves. Then I can still run stock heat exchangers. 1.1:1 rockers. I will get cut to fit HD pushrods. And thinking of matching the manifolds to the heads.
Does that sound good? I wish I had $$$$ growing on a tree out back so I could do it all now.
Should I get different pushrod tubes or can I reuse stock? I've read that there are ones that are a little bigger ID on the head side to keep the pushrod from rubbing with higher lift cams. Is this a bunch of horseshit just to sell product?
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: advise on an 1835 build please. Reply with quote

It sounds a lot like the engines I have been building, I'd love to see it when it's going.

WebCam 218 vs the WebCam 118 which is what I installed in the bus engine I built last year. The 118 had such low lift that I was able to install the 1.25:1 Ratio rockers and run stock pushrods and that one's lift calculates out to be about .457" that way.
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 11:23 pm    Post subject: Re: advise on an 1835 build please. Reply with quote

Hopefully it gives me some good torque. I will definitely post when it's done and how it does. I m sure I'm gonna have a ton more questions in this build before it's over.
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 12:15 am    Post subject: Re: advise on an 1835 build please. Reply with quote

If your pushrod tubes are ok, sure, use them. Usually they are beat up, and hard to clean, and you finally get em clean and see it has a hole in it Embarassed or something, so it's not a bad idea to just buy new ones.

Personally, i like the plain old plated ones CB sells, they work fine. Not a lot of bling, but who is looking at them??

Pushrods are about the last piece. I say order them last. There is a good chance stock length will work, so you can find out, and if so just order stock length!
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 6:38 am    Post subject: Re: advise on an 1835 build please. Reply with quote

modok wrote:
If your pushrod tubes are ok, sure, use them. Usually they are beat up, and hard to clean, and you finally get em clean and see it has a hole in it Embarassed or something, so it's not a bad idea to just buy new ones.

Personally, i like the plain old plated ones CB sells, they work fine. Not a lot of bling, but who is looking at them??

Pushrods are about the last piece. I say order them last. There is a good chance stock length will work, so you can find out, and if so just order stock length!


Cool I have a whole pile of those I can clean up and inspect. Less money spent on shit I don't need is a good thing.
unfortunately I'm at a stand still and until my cam ships. Ordered it from DRD and I guess there is a 10-14 day lead time or some crap. Wish I would of noticed that before. I might not get it until the end of this week or next week.
Oh. I have another question. If I should post this in off road let me know.
Since this case is fit for a sand seal. Are there different sizes? What do I use to keep it in place? And what kind of pulley to get? I was looking at the two piece pulleys from CB. they are pretty, good quality(looks that way anyways), but $$$. Give me some options. And if there are any to stay away from. Thanks.
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 11:06 am    Post subject: Re: advise on an 1835 build please. Reply with quote

When I was going thru a pile of push rods I seem to have I was chucking them in my drill motor and seeing if they were bent if they spin true but most had a little of bow in them. I cleaned them by spraying carb clean spray thru the holes and installed them but yeah those aluminum race ones would be nicer. Perhaps these: http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Bugpack-3-8-Aluminum-Pushrods-Uncut-Set-of-8-p/4054.htm
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