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ibjack Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2002 Posts: 2105 Location: Imperial Beach CA
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Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:43 am Post subject: Differences in paint quality |
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What are the main differences in paint quality. I get the coverage, durability and consistency but what's makes a high quality, top of the line paint? I work in a kitchen and can tell you the difference between a $3 steak and a $8 steak but I don't see the difference of a $50 steak other that the branding and the ability to say it came from xxxxx. I'm sure the there are preferences from the pros but I'd just like to find a validation for spending a higher amount of money for paint. _________________ '68 Lotus White T34 automatic sunroof
'64 Manila Yellow T34
'65 Sea Blue Square Panel
the1500club.com
Shop Lacky at the T3/34 Factory, https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100094313902074 |
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Spezialist Banned
Joined: July 01, 2005 Posts: 1941
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Differences in paint quality |
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ibjack wrote: |
What are the main differences in paint quality. I get the coverage, durability and consistency but what's makes a high quality, top of the line paint? I work in a kitchen and can tell you the difference between a $3 steak and a $8 steak but I don't see the difference of a $50 steak other that the branding and the ability to say it came from xxxxx. I'm sure the there are preferences from the pros but I'd just like to find a validation for spending a higher amount of money for paint. |
High end (Glasso) paint isn't made from generic products, and actually doesn't cost that much more, since you need to use much less for the same job.
London Broil, Chateaubriand, or Filet Mignon for me.
Or fatty hamburger since it's made from the same regions. _________________
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Differences in paint quality |
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Generic .....is a bit too "generic" of a term for the differences between high and low cost coatings.
The pigments that go into the individual colorants as well as the solvents, binders, resins etc....in what you might call "generic" paints and coatings are largely made by the same companies that make the same products for premium paint and coating lines.
In fact many of the ingredients are identical.
The differences in cost are only partly related (and not always a large part).....to ingredient cost and quality.
Most of it is due to labor investment during the processing of the ingredients.
For pigments.... Grinding/ball milling time, care and time spent during batching and mixing, equipment quality.....which is highly competed for within plants on the better equipment lines.......all make even more of a difference on the quality and cost of a coating than the ingredient cost alone makes.
Making paint is not just a mix and a stir. Ray |
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Spezialist Banned
Joined: July 01, 2005 Posts: 1941
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: Differences in paint quality |
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Generic is the exact word for some brands because they do not have the patents for process or formulation, including but not limited to light reflectivity tests on various surfaces.
And no they don't all use the same stuff inside. _________________
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Differences in paint quality |
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Spezialist wrote: |
Generic is the exact word for some brands because they do not have the patents for process or formulation, including but not limited to light reflectivity tests on various surfaces.
And no they don't all use the same stuff inside. |
1. There are few if any unknown or patented processes in paint mixing for solvent based paints anymore. Haven't been for the better part of 40 years.....except in electrostatic coatings field .
I work with many of the pigment/colorant manufacturers that supply EVERYONE in virtually every paint, coating and ink industry.
2. Nor did I say that they ALL use the same ingredients.....or "stuff" inside as you note.
However....when you are looking at the pigments that go into the individual colorants....that go into the mix of a particular color.....there are only a handful of sources worldwide.....raw material sources.....not dealers selling pigments/colorants (of which there are many).......and the vast majority from brand to brand are indeed from the same source.
If you are making the exact same color in two different paint BRANDS of the same chemistry. ...i.e.....lets eay they are both single part lacquer......the colorants used by both manufacturers will most probably be sourced from the same raw material.
The solvents will be the same. The binders WILL have some differences snd this is the first main ingredient based opportunity for one manufacturer to make a product better than the competitor. That difference is usually not large enough to warrnant a significant eifference in price.
The differences come in the sub processes.....i.e.:
Manufacturer #1 may batch it a out by weight with a variations of +/-1%......which is just....ok. Followed by a single temperature controlled shear rotor dispersion. ...without changing mixing containers to bring the fine ingredients to the bottom and heavy to the top......then into the buckets.
Work is checked by draw down, spray down and spectrophotometer...which accounts ofr specular gloss and may be taken to only a Delta-E of say 5......which is discernable to the human eye.
Viscosity is checked with a rotational viscometer. Nothing fancy.
Each stage is labor intensive and costly.
These are just the main colorant paints mind you.....the base colors used for mixing/matching at the jobber.
Manufacturer #2 does all of the above except......he flips the entire batch twice during dispersion. ...then runs the entire batch through a liquid cooled zirconium ball mill (very common at most paint and coating manufactures but not used on cheaper paints )......which homogenizes the mix, suspends it and reduces particle size.
Further QC. Work is done in a wet cell spectrophotometer. If the colorant does not match to below a Delta -E of 3 .....which is the smallest difference discernable to human vision.....the spectro software (having the mix programmed in) will tell them which if the colorant ingredients is too high or low by weight.
Viscosity is checked snd controlled during mixing through the ball mill by an inline vibrational viscometer .....far more accurate and a more expensive tool.
The batch is corrected and run through the ball mill again before packaging.
So yes.....while there are some differences in ingredients.....the primary differences are in the sub processing. And.....its not a matter of patented processes. Its a matter of how much processing money the manufacturer is willing to invest into a budget priced paint.
Light reflectivity tests are all done by spectrophotometer and specular gloss meters. Even the worst paint plants have those. I have those tools. Its about $7k between the two tools so its not rocket science or even special equipment.
Ray |
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Spezialist Banned
Joined: July 01, 2005 Posts: 1941
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: Differences in paint quality |
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If any of the dribble you just blabbed were true all of the systems would be compatible checmically with each other. They clearly are not compatible , Anyone who has painted with more than one system knows what I'm saying to be true.
Great job at sales, I'm not buying.
Edited to ad,
And you let this post sit unanswered until I posted an informed opinion and you are only arguing with me, not really giving anything of value to the OP.
So unless you go and erase the last few days of your presence here, youre busted.
It's not the first time you've done this, but who cares? Right? Sad. _________________
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kman Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2005 Posts: 739 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:39 am Post subject: Re: Differences in paint quality |
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Thanks Ray. Very informative. If anything Ray isn't selling anything. I make sure my clear has good UV resistance as you can buy clears without it. A lot of the rest seems to be marketing and making the user feel special. |
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jspbtown Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5152
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Differences in paint quality |
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Never pay for anything that will last a lifetime unless you plan on keeping the item a lifetime. |
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raul arrese Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2006 Posts: 1329 Location: miami florida
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Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Differences in paint quality |
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I used the top of the line sherwin williams , primer , base , and clear ... good quality paint makes a world of diffrence ... and it allso make s a show winner not a half ass paint job like most of them out there .. _________________ " Hot vw feature , may 2014 issue "
" 2013 Bug Jam class winner "
" Bug Jam best motor and best paint "
" 2013 Lakeland Classic Best of Show "
" 2014 Show and Shine , First in class "
"
Like my facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Raul-Arrese-custom-fabrication-and-performance/1832968110262608 |
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raul arrese Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2006 Posts: 1329 Location: miami florida
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