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72squareguy Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2013 Posts: 111 Location: Victorville, CA
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:19 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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Hey fellas, just checking in here. I haven't done anything with the squareback these passed 2 days. I've been busy working on a friend's 68 type 1 that's been sitting in my garage. All I've been doing is starting up the squareback just to move it. Still starts right up everytime. I have that other MPS on it's way. It looks just like the E system MPS. The guy said it says "72-73 VW" on it. So it sounds like an E component to me. Then my next thing I'm gonna do is carefully try to pull out the little female connectors out of the plastic connectors for the injectors and see what they look like. Clean them and try to tighten them up. I will keep you guys informed when I do that. |
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72squareguy Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2013 Posts: 111 Location: Victorville, CA
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Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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Okay guys here's my latest. Yesterday I screwed with it for a bit. I put my other throttle switch on yesterday and adjusted it per bentley. I noticed it's a aftermarket replacement from God knows when because it doesn't have the VW part number on it like my other one. It only has the Bosch number. Anyways I did that and screwed with the injector connectors with a small pick. I tried to just scratch them up a bit to get some scrap off them in there . And tried to squeeze em together for a better connection. I also did the same with the trigger contacts connector. I put the original distributor back on and set timing the timing as best as I can. The timing is still jumping around dramatically. I went to drive it, it did it's litter rev limiting thing once it got to that rpm. I floored it, it sputtered then it finally worked passed that issue them rpms increased normal. I tried to do that in second gear. It was not having that.!! So I guess I can say I got somewhere.
My roommate is telling me to just put the carbs back on it. I say no! I want to keep the original F.I |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33991 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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72squareguy wrote: |
The timing is still jumping around dramatically. |
Until this is resolved, it won't matter whether it is carbs or FI. |
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72squareguy Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2013 Posts: 111 Location: Victorville, CA
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Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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KTPhil wrote: |
72squareguy wrote: |
The timing is still jumping around dramatically. |
Until this is resolved, it won't matter whether it is carbs or FI. |
When I had the carbs on it, the 009 distributor it had did the same thing. Is it just a worn distributors or maybe the drive gear? |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33991 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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Good question... odd coincidence for it to happen with two distributors, but that would seem more likely than a worn drive gear or dog. |
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72squareguy Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2013 Posts: 111 Location: Victorville, CA
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Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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So I have another dumb question, a different fuel pump wouldn't cause weird issues right? For example, I didn't put an original style pump on it I couldn't find one so I bought a late model type 4 inline pump for it and of course just ran the plumbing different. (by putting the return line straight back to the tank) But still set the pressure to 28 psi. I know the original pump's plumbing was different. I'm sure there's a reason they did it that way right? |
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Donnie strickland Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009 Posts: 2403 Location: Moody, AL
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Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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The type of fuel pump wouldn't be the cause, no.
VW/Bosch wanted to make sure there would be sufficient fuel supply for the injection system, but after several years they went to the later style, once they were sure there would be no ill effects.
I, and many other Samba users, run the Airtex E2000 pump, and run the return straight to the tank. _________________ 71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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72squareguy Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2013 Posts: 111 Location: Victorville, CA
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Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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Quote: |
I, and many other Samba users, run the Airtex E2000 pump, and run the return straight to the tank. |
Is this pump basically the same as late model bus F.I pumps? Just inline right? |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22711 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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72squareguy wrote: |
Quote: |
I, and many other Samba users, run the Airtex E2000 pump, and run the return straight to the tank. |
Is this pump basically the same as late model bus F.I pumps? Just inline right? |
It's a Ford Ranger pump, but the Bus L-Jet style pump works fine, also. In fact, I've been using the Volvo/ Audi style of this pump with the special outlet fitting and fuel line end because it has a replaceable check valve in the fitting. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Donnie strickland Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009 Posts: 2403 Location: Moody, AL
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Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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72squareguy wrote: |
Is this pump basically the same as late model bus F.I pumps? Just inline right? |
It's the same as a stock Type 3 Bosch pump, but the inlet and outlet are on opposite ends. _________________ 71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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72squareguy Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2013 Posts: 111 Location: Victorville, CA
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Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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Now I know that motor does that a little bit more compression than stock. (.050 fly cut heads)
Now that wouldn't screw with it would it? If anything its getting more vacuum ? |
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72squareguy Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2013 Posts: 111 Location: Victorville, CA
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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So it's also doing this weird thing at idle. It'll jump up and down every so often. I'm gonna take a video of it here shortly and post it. |
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72squareguy Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2013 Posts: 111 Location: Victorville, CA
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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Here's a video I just did. The first voltage on the meter is what my generator is putting out and second is at the primary side of the coil. You can hear what the idle is doing. It'll seem to idle a little high then when you bump the throttle with your hand as I did, it'll go down.... then it'll kick back up. you can hear it at the end of the video. I can't find a vacuum leak anywhere. I've been using a can of carb cleaner with a straw and sprayed it all over it could leak. Nothing changes the idle.
I'm guessing this problem is probably related to the driveability problem I've had.
https://youtu.be/CB4MLGOtBrw |
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Hip2besquare Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2013 Posts: 80 Location: New York
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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I had a very similar situation happen on my 73 squareback, it wound up being a bad condenser on the distributor after I replaced that it ran like a champ. I tried everything just like your doing but after replacing condenser it cleared right up.
Richie |
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72squareguy Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2013 Posts: 111 Location: Victorville, CA
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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Hip2besquare wrote: |
I had a very similar situation happen on my 73 squareback, it wound up being a bad condenser on the distributor after I replaced that it ran like a champ. I tried everything just like your doing but after replacing condenser it cleared right up.
Richie |
I've already changed it out. But it wasn't new it's a used one I just pulled off an SVDA 034 I have laying around. It seemed to be a perfect fit. |
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72squareguy Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2013 Posts: 111 Location: Victorville, CA
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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So I wanted to re check fuel pressure. I went and bought another gauge because my other one is all screwed up so I tossed it.
Then I come home to recheck pressure and found this....
So I think.... some of a bitch!!!
I was all excited thinking "I found the problem". I bumped it up to 28 psi. And of course with my luck.... it didn't change a damn thing.... |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33991 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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My brief experience with fuel pressure that low is that it runs, but runs roughly and smells rich, even though it is actually running lean. Mine wasn't burning the coarse low pressure mixture so the exhaust stank of fuel. Yet it didn't actually have enough fuel to burn and run right. Bumping it back up to 28/29 made a big difference. So if yours didn't change, I wonder what else is wrong that made a lean/coarse mixture not make a difference. |
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72squareguy Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2013 Posts: 111 Location: Victorville, CA
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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KTPhil wrote: |
My brief experience with fuel pressure that low is that it runs, but runs roughly and smells rich, even though it is actually running lean. Mine wasn't burning the coarse low pressure mixture so the exhaust stank of fuel. Yet it didn't actually have enough fuel to burn and run right. Bumping it back up to 28/29 made a big difference. So if yours didn't change, I wonder what else is wrong that made a lean/coarse mixture not make a difference. |
Before when I would start to rev it up it was rough. I did notice that putting the pressure back to spec stopped it from doing that. I'm still thinking the MAP! I should've bought a damn vacuum pump so I can see if its losing vacuum slowly. |
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FastbackFynn Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2016 Posts: 13 Location: England
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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Do you mind if you post or pm me a few more photos of your engine please? |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33991 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection help!!! |
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72squareguy wrote: |
KTPhil wrote: |
My brief experience with fuel pressure that low is that it runs, but runs roughly and smells rich, even though it is actually running lean. Mine wasn't burning the coarse low pressure mixture so the exhaust stank of fuel. Yet it didn't actually have enough fuel to burn and run right. Bumping it back up to 28/29 made a big difference. So if yours didn't change, I wonder what else is wrong that made a lean/coarse mixture not make a difference. |
Before when I would start to rev it up it was rough. I did notice that putting the pressure back to spec stopped it from doing that. I'm still thinking the MAP! I should've bought a damn vacuum pump so I can see if its losing vacuum slowly. |
I'm getting lost who is running what pump, so this may not make sense in your case, but...
If the external valve in the original pump goes bad I think it can bleed pressure out. If that happens randomly, your actual fuel pressure may be varying, which could cause your idle variation. Can you correlate the pressure change with the idle speed change now? |
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