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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4340
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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 Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
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[quote="mark tucker"]
| bugguy1967 wrote: |
Aside from the noise factor, chromoly pushrods weigh much more than heavy duty aluminum pushrods. Most people run a 110 cam on heavy lifters, heavy pushrods, unmodified rockers with the extra weight from the aftermarket adjusters, sometimes larger heavier valves, and heavier chromoly retainers. For a single HD spring, it really pushes its' limits. Something to think about.
110?? high rpm cam?? say it aint so!!!! if you build a engine with a 110 and expect a highrpm race motor your infor some effed up stuff&disappointments too. unless highrpm to you is 4000  there are mant things that can be done when building that can alter the noise&wear of the valve train& also the entire engine. like I said befour, for your app I would go for the aluminum cb hd pushrods. |
Actually, I didn't say it was so. Re-read through my post a few times, and I don't see anything related to engine speed.
W110 is supposed to have a 5500 RPM useable powerband, but can easily be spun up to 6000. Since the "said" limit of single springs are 6000 RPM by many Samba members, it's safe to say that at the upper limit of the springs' capacity it's safer to use lighter parts than heavier parts to remain reliable at the cam's upper range. |
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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4340
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
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Wait a minute: I just measured a bunch of factory pushrods, and I'm getting an average of 37.7 grams. How are your measurements so far off?
Measurements taken on an Ohaus 600g digital scale. I weigh that against my Ohaus triple-beam often. |
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neil68
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2007
Posts: 3440
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
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My Logmech dual-tapered 7075 aluminum pushrods weigh 60 grams with the steel ends installed. They are just under 1/2" in diameter (12 mm) at the waist.
_________________
Neil.
Der Kleiner Rennwagens
68 Beetle 2332 cc, 204 WHP
12.5 seconds @ 107 mph
Dynojet Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9B_H3eklAo |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21507
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
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| bugguy1967 wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| bugguy1967 wrote: |
Aside from the noise factor, chromoly pushrods weigh much more than heavy duty aluminum pushrods. Most people run a 110 cam on heavy lifters, heavy pushrods, unmodified rockers with the extra weight from the aftermarket adjusters, sometimes larger heavier valves, and heavier chromoly retainers. For a single HD spring, it really pushes its' limits. Something to think about.
Idk why you even considered duals for such a mild cam. Lighten your valvetrain and you'll be fine with singles. |
Says who?.....just weighed one or my type 4 chromo pushrods at 65.4 grams versus the stock aluminum at 72.8 grams.
Ray |
Just saw this, so I went out to measure. I've measured before and came to that conclusion awhile back. Pictures aren't uploading for me for some reason right now. Tried on my phone and on my pad.
Manton Aluminum HD 11.500" (uncut) with end on the scale top as well - 49.0 grams
Manton Chromoly 11.017" cut with end recently installed - 88.5 grams
That chromoly pushrod is shorter and still weighs almost twice as much as the aluminum HD. I had a set of Norris HD 11.250" pushrods, and they weighed 46 grams when cut to 11.003".
I weighed the cheap SCAT stock length steel pushrods. 81 grams.
I'm failing to see how a T4 pushrod and a stock aluminum pushrod even compare to what I was originally discussing, but I make my conclusions based on these measurements listed. If you want to see my pictures at a later time, I'll upload them as soon as the gallery is working or my devices let me upload. |
Be happy to upload mine as well on my digital scale. You can't make generic statements like that.
My chromos are Manton as well. Stock pushrods are different for every engine. Also...there is a,WIDE range of PR wall thickness. Depends on length/stroke as well.
In general. ....aluminum stock PRs that light were weak from day one. Its one of the reason for instance that type 4s are gendrally heavier duty engines than type 1 stock.
In general...most good quality chromos are as light or lighter than stock aluminum of similar strength because they use a lot less metal to achieve equal or better strength. Ray |
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maui
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2004
Posts: 438
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:46 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
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| 110 cam, aluminum PRs and single springs and 40x35s and light lifters and cromo or titanium retainers is a winning ticket. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26776
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:38 am Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
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type-4 alu pushrods are HUGE, approx 12mm diameter I think! 
If you can't afford the good aluminum pushrods then get the good steel ones. If you can't afford those, get a job slacker  Or run stock
Stock pushrods are surprisingly good.
I've running stock pushrods, web 110, CB light lifters, lightened rockers, beehive springs(120 seat, 220 open), how long do you think I can get away with that? |
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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4340
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:30 am Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| bugguy1967 wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| bugguy1967 wrote: |
Aside from the noise factor, chromoly pushrods weigh much more than heavy duty aluminum pushrods. Most people run a 110 cam on heavy lifters, heavy pushrods, unmodified rockers with the extra weight from the aftermarket adjusters, sometimes larger heavier valves, and heavier chromoly retainers. For a single HD spring, it really pushes its' limits. Something to think about.
Idk why you even considered duals for such a mild cam. Lighten your valvetrain and you'll be fine with singles. |
Says who?.....just weighed one or my type 4 chromo pushrods at 65.4 grams versus the stock aluminum at 72.8 grams.
Ray |
Just saw this, so I went out to measure. I've measured before and came to that conclusion awhile back. Pictures aren't uploading for me for some reason right now. Tried on my phone and on my pad.
Manton Aluminum HD 11.500" (uncut) with end on the scale top as well - 49.0 grams
Manton Chromoly 11.017" cut with end recently installed - 88.5 grams
That chromoly pushrod is shorter and still weighs almost twice as much as the aluminum HD. I had a set of Norris HD 11.250" pushrods, and they weighed 46 grams when cut to 11.003".
I weighed the cheap SCAT stock length steel pushrods. 81 grams.
I'm failing to see how a T4 pushrod and a stock aluminum pushrod even compare to what I was originally discussing, but I make my conclusions based on these measurements listed. If you want to see my pictures at a later time, I'll upload them as soon as the gallery is working or my devices let me upload. |
Be happy to upload mine as well on my digital scale. You can't make generic statements like that.
My chromos are Manton as well. Stock pushrods are different for every engine. Also...there is a,WIDE range of PR wall thickness. Depends on length/stroke as well.
In general. ....aluminum stock PRs that light were weak from day one. Its one of the reason for instance that type 4s are gendrally heavier duty engines than type 1 stock.
In general...most good quality chromos are as light or lighter than stock aluminum of similar strength because they use a lot less metal to achieve equal or better strength. Ray |
That may be a generalized statement if there are type 1 chromoly pushrods that are lighter than heavy duty aluminum. I'm not even discussing stock aluminum. They were never mentioned. From the chromoly ones that I've ever used, they were always heavier.
What brands of chromoly pushrods are less than 46 grams? |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21507
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
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| bugguy1967 wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| bugguy1967 wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| bugguy1967 wrote: |
Aside from the noise factor, chromoly pushrods weigh much more than heavy duty aluminum pushrods. Most people run a 110 cam on heavy lifters, heavy pushrods, unmodified rockers with the extra weight from the aftermarket adjusters, sometimes larger heavier valves, and heavier chromoly retainers. For a single HD spring, it really pushes its' limits. Something to think about.
Idk why you even considered duals for such a mild cam. Lighten your valvetrain and you'll be fine with singles. |
Says who?.....just weighed one or my type 4 chromo pushrods at 65.4 grams versus the stock aluminum at 72.8 grams.
Ray |
Just saw this, so I went out to measure. I've measured before and came to that conclusion awhile back. Pictures aren't uploading for me for some reason right now. Tried on my phone and on my pad.
Manton Aluminum HD 11.500" (uncut) with end on the scale top as well - 49.0 grams
Manton Chromoly 11.017" cut with end recently installed - 88.5 grams
That chromoly pushrod is shorter and still weighs almost twice as much as the aluminum HD. I had a set of Norris HD 11.250" pushrods, and they weighed 46 grams when cut to 11.003".
I weighed the cheap SCAT stock length steel pushrods. 81 grams.
I'm failing to see how a T4 pushrod and a stock aluminum pushrod even compare to what I was originally discussing, but I make my conclusions based on these measurements listed. If you want to see my pictures at a later time, I'll upload them as soon as the gallery is working or my devices let me upload. |
Be happy to upload mine as well on my digital scale. You can't make generic statements like that.
My chromos are Manton as well. Stock pushrods are different for every engine. Also...there is a,WIDE range of PR wall thickness. Depends on length/stroke as well.
In general. ....aluminum stock PRs that light were weak from day one. Its one of the reason for instance that type 4s are gendrally heavier duty engines than type 1 stock.
In general...most good quality chromos are as light or lighter than stock aluminum of similar strength because they use a lot less metal to achieve equal or better strength. Ray |
That may be a generalized statement if there are type 1 chromoly pushrods that are lighter than heavy duty aluminum. I'm not even discussing stock aluminum. They were never mentioned. From the chromoly ones that I've ever used, they were always heavier.
What brands of chromoly pushrods are less than 46 grams? |
Lets see...you mentioned heavy duty aluminum pushrods....and what does heavy duty mean to you...or anyone?
Whose heavy duty?
Yes...type 4 pushrods are about 12mm diameter with a 2mm wall thickness. You can buy type 1 pushrods that are similar. Thats heavy duty.
A 46 gram aluminum push rod heavy duty...possible if they are say 7075 aluminum tapered...but you didn't mention any of that....so otherwise a 46 gram aluminum pushrod is doubtful to be heavy duty and of course the chromo push rod is going to be heavier than that.
Not trying to be pointy...just pointing out your use of a generalization and assuming that the PR's you have and are weighing are "standard" across their categories. Ray |
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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4340
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
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| Ok. It's a generalization until you prove me wrong with facts. Still interested to know EXACTLY what brand of chromoly pushrods weigh less than ANY of the Type 1 blank end aluminum pushrods currently available (Smith Bros, Norris, CB/Manton/ACN). I could give two shits about Type 4 info. I deal with Type 1. |
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DSTMULE
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2006
Posts: 402
Location: SOCAL
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
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| How can you tell in a used engine if it has aluminum or chromoly push rods in it? with a magnet? |
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hobbybob517
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2011
Posts: 1194
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
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| DSTMULE wrote: |
| How can you tell in a used engine if it has aluminum or chromoly push rods in it? with a magnet? |
tap on then gently with a spanner,
CrMo "rings" Aluminum doesn't.
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| SBD wrote: |
3 million rpm? Well there's your problem! No wonder it blew up! |
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DSTMULE
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2006
Posts: 402
Location: SOCAL
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
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| Thanks hobbybob517 I will give it a try |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21507
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
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| DSTMULE wrote: |
| How can you tell in a used engine if it has aluminum or chromoly push rods in it? with a magnet? |
Yes...chromoly is magnetic. Ray |
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