Author |
Message |
212degrees Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2016 Posts: 27 Location: portland
|
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:16 pm Post subject: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
I am building a 1904 for my Vert Bug.
Will the Aluminum stock push-rods work?
Here is what I have thus far:
1. B6 (dual oil relief case, once over) cut for 90.5's
2. New CB forged & C/W'd crank 74mm
3. Engle W110 cam (I reused stock gears)
4. New Silverline bearings
5. I-beam 5.325" rods
6. Piston kit (Hypereutectic)
7. CB heads, 40X35.5 SS valves, single HD springs.
8. Solid rockers with stock 1.1:1
Thanks guys. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
smitty24 Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2008 Posts: 2723 Location: Salem, Oregon
|
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
they make heavy duty aluminum that are quieter than the chromoly. I use them on my current engine. I had the chromoly on my 1904 and they were loud. There are a lot of places that sell the hd aluminum. I wouldnt use stock. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Howard 111 Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2005 Posts: 1827 Location: Virginia
|
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
Better figure out the valve train geometry. Stock length may be too long, or too short. And with what you have going in this engine, I would choose dual springs and CM pushrods. Fairly cheap insurance it will last! _________________ 1973 Karmann Ghia
Turbocharged, Fuel Injected
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=531270 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jason Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002 Posts: 3444 Location: Garage
|
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
Just get the cheaper HD aluminum ones CB sells, dont need the tapered ones. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
212degrees Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2016 Posts: 27 Location: portland
|
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
Thanks Smitty.
I'm not sure if my Aluminum pushrods are stock or HD. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9147 Location: Canada
|
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
No need for dual springs or CrMo pushrods. Figure out your geometry and if the stock ones are the right length run them. I ran a 110 and 1.25s with hd single springs and stock pushrods for years racing auto-x and probably put about 50K miles on the motor with no issues.
brad |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
|
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
my chromo's arnt any louder than the oe aluminum on es I had before them, but the aluminum pushrods did not have full tyme oiling. and diferent rockers. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kevlarian Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014 Posts: 636 Location: Orange County, CA
|
Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:51 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
So what's the verdict? What are the quietest pushrods? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
AlteWagen Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8503 Location: PNW
|
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:54 am Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
Chromoly can be quiet if you set them to zero lash, once the engine heats up and expands you will have a few thousands. Most dont know any better and set them to .006 and when the engine is up to temp the lash is excessive and loud.
As long as you run solid shafts with .002-.005 side clearance and zero valve lash cold it will as quiet or quieter than stock.
These days I prefer to use HD aluminum push rods to keep weight down. _________________ Grapes of Wrath $200 Engine Rebuild
Official Dual Carb Thread
Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JohnnyRingo Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2011 Posts: 415 Location: United States
|
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:32 am Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
I have a 1904 stroker that Pat built at cbperformance.....he used their new super duty aluminum push rods......there quiet and set at .006" in his initial build quote he listed chromoly......then he changed his mind and went with their aluminum, I ask why he said there really nice, and would be quieter. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
|
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:31 am Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
I also set mine when the engine is warm....but for you I would say get the cb hd ones. butt bee sure to get the geo right the first time along with everything else. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
|
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
mark tucker wrote: |
I also set mine when the engine is warm....but for you I would say get the cb hd ones. butt bee sure to get the geo right the first time along with everything else. |
X2 on this. I started setting valves HOT on any pushrods....many years ago. It really makes no difference what your cold lash is....because you do not drive withe cold valves or pushrods.
You will find that since most valves are two piece induction or spin welded that they expand at different rates by .001" to .003" easily. I set tbem cold.....then measure them at full warmed up to see how they expand. ...at least three times. Then you can pretty much set them hot to about .002" to .003"....and they stay perfect. Ray |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15309 Location: Deep in the 405
|
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
Aluminum pushrods will always be quieter the steel. Single valve springs will always be quieter the dual valve springs. Steel transmits noise where aluminum deadens noise. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
|
Back to top |
|
|
FreeBug Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012 Posts: 4278 Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
|
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:42 am Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
In any off road situation, or any situation where you don't have easy access to your valvetrain (parking lot?), there is something to be said for being able to check/adjust your valve clearance without having to mess with feeler gauges...just one thing to be said for steel. I run them in my bus, low cost, low performance, no need to get fancy. Reliable. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4343 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
|
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:58 am Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
Aside from the noise factor, chromoly pushrods weigh much more than heavy duty aluminum pushrods. Most people run a 110 cam on heavy lifters, heavy pushrods, unmodified rockers with the extra weight from the aftermarket adjusters, sometimes larger heavier valves, and heavier chromoly retainers. For a single HD spring, it really pushes its' limits. Something to think about.
Idk why you even considered duals for such a mild cam. Lighten your valvetrain and you'll be fine with singles. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
|
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
[quote="bugguy1967"]Aside from the noise factor, chromoly pushrods weigh much more than heavy duty aluminum pushrods. Most people run a 110 cam on heavy lifters, heavy pushrods, unmodified rockers with the extra weight from the aftermarket adjusters, sometimes larger heavier valves, and heavier chromoly retainers. For a single HD spring, it really pushes its' limits. Something to think about.
110?? high rpm cam?? say it aint so!!!! if you build a engine with a 110 and expect a highrpm race motor your infor some effed up stuff&disappointments too. unless highrpm to you is 4000 there are mant things that can be done when building that can alter the noise&wear of the valve train& also the entire engine. like I said befour, for your app I would go for the aluminum cb hd pushrods. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
CiderGuy Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2013 Posts: 1351 Location: Bucks County, Pa
|
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
Not to high jack this thread, but I have a question about rust on new stock pushrods.
Due to health, work, and my son going to Afghanistan which really stressed me out, they sat in a unopened box for more then a year.
Should I buy another set of pushrods ?
Thanks _________________ ----------------------
Cars Currently Owned:
1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1973 Karmann Ghia Coupe - Project car for sale
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (Body off restoration)
Timing is everything |
|
Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
|
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
bugguy1967 wrote: |
Aside from the noise factor, chromoly pushrods weigh much more than heavy duty aluminum pushrods. Most people run a 110 cam on heavy lifters, heavy pushrods, unmodified rockers with the extra weight from the aftermarket adjusters, sometimes larger heavier valves, and heavier chromoly retainers. For a single HD spring, it really pushes its' limits. Something to think about.
Idk why you even considered duals for such a mild cam. Lighten your valvetrain and you'll be fine with singles. |
Says who?.....just weighed one or my type 4 chromo pushrods at 65.4 grams versus the stock aluminum at 72.8 grams.
Ray |
|
Back to top |
|
|
67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9771 Location: Oregon
|
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
CiderGuy wrote: |
Not to high jack this thread, but I have a question about rust on new stock pushrods.
Due to health, work, and my son going to Afghanistan which really stressed me out, they sat in a unopened box for more then a year.
Should I buy another set of pushrods ?
Thanks |
Scrub them with some steel wool. Then thoroughly clean them. You should be good to go. Unless they are heavily pitted.
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4343 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
|
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Push rod question, Aluminum or Chromoly? |
|
|
raygreenwood wrote: |
bugguy1967 wrote: |
Aside from the noise factor, chromoly pushrods weigh much more than heavy duty aluminum pushrods. Most people run a 110 cam on heavy lifters, heavy pushrods, unmodified rockers with the extra weight from the aftermarket adjusters, sometimes larger heavier valves, and heavier chromoly retainers. For a single HD spring, it really pushes its' limits. Something to think about.
Idk why you even considered duals for such a mild cam. Lighten your valvetrain and you'll be fine with singles. |
Says who?.....just weighed one or my type 4 chromo pushrods at 65.4 grams versus the stock aluminum at 72.8 grams.
Ray |
Just saw this, so I went out to measure. I've measured before and came to that conclusion awhile back. Pictures aren't uploading for me for some reason right now. Tried on my phone and on my pad.
Manton Aluminum HD 11.500" (uncut) with end on the scale top as well - 49.0 grams
Manton Chromoly 11.017" cut with end recently installed - 88.5 grams
That chromoly pushrod is shorter and still weighs almost twice as much as the aluminum HD. I had a set of Norris HD 11.250" pushrods, and they weighed 46 grams when cut to 11.003".
I weighed the cheap SCAT stock length steel pushrods. 81 grams.
I'm failing to see how a T4 pushrod and a stock aluminum pushrod even compare to what I was originally discussing, but I make my conclusions based on these measurements listed. If you want to see my pictures at a later time, I'll upload them as soon as the gallery is working or my devices let me upload. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|