stock IRS trailing arms longer work advice?

[pablovent]

Hi guys;

I'm work in my street Baja project, front suspension lifted with 3,5" raised spindles, but I´ll need enlarge stock trailing arms 3 ", like photo. Maybe 1x3" will be better for me.
I need tips or any recommendation for stock trailing arms modification.

I`ll Really apreciate your experiences...

Thanks and regards.

[pablovent]

up

[Multi69s]

You're going to have a very hard time extending the stock trailing arms and not having them bend on the first pot hole you meet. Before you even start, you will need to make a jig. Otherwise, your toe and camber will go out the window. Then, you will probably need custom axles, due to the oddball size. You'd be much better off buying some 3 X 3s or 2.5 X 2.5s.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

[pablovent]

ok...I understand.......3x3 "arms only work with 930 cv joints?

[Multi69s]

You can use stock CV joints on the 3 X 3 arms. You will have more travel then you do now, but not as much as if you went with Type 2, 4, or 930s. What determines the type of CV joint you need are the stub axles, and the CV flange on the transmission. So to keep cost down just run your stock stub axles and transmission flanges, and CV joints. You will just need to get the trailing arms and axles. There is a lot of good reading here.

http://blindchickenracing.com/How_to/Howto.htm
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

[Vanapplebomb]

Couple questions for the original poster:

Is this an effort to make it look astheticaly pleasing, or for function?
Will this be used off road or is it a mostly street Baja?
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[Sandjunky]

Your type 1 CV joints are your limiter in travel. If you get 3x3 trailing arms then you will have to limit your travel with bump stops and limit straps to keep from destroying your joints, which defeats the purpose of the longer trailing arms anyway. Unless, like Vanapplebomb is asking, this is for aesthetics only.

If money is the limiter then I would save and do it right the first time.
Here is a full kit for $1100.
http://www.appletreeauto.com/TRAILING-ARM-KIT-FOR-930-and-002-TA3x3930-002/

I'm told that you can work with them to upgrade the CV joints to ultimate plunging CV joints which are a true 30 degree joint instead of the EMPI 930, which apparently only achieves 26 even though they advertise 28*.
http://www.rcvperformance.com/product-details.aspx?sku=301174CC

I plan to do this myself when the money is there.

[dustymojave]

So that you guys understand Pablo's situation...

The country where he lives adds huge import duties on everything imported. So parts coming from the US will cost him 2 or 3 times as much as they do to us who live in the US. So a rear suspension kit that costs us $1,100 might cost him $3,300.

Also, he is translating from Spanish into English to write to the group here, so some of his writing might be a little difficult to understand. I speak and write Spanish, so he and I have communicated a few times. Between his knowledge of English, and my knowledge of Spanish, we get along pretty well. So if anybody needs translation in this thread, let me know. He has been around offroad VWs quite a while, and has built Bajas and tube frame buggies before, but does not have access to many of the parts we in the US take for granted.

Pablo seems to want to keep the width of the car close to stock, so he seems to not want to go for 3x3 arms. This may have to do with streets or trails in his area being narrow.

I think that 2x3 arms would be the best compromise for Pablo in that there are plenty of VW Type 2s around him. So he can get a 002 and Type 2 CVs and axles fairly easily.

In metric, that works out to about 50mm x 75mm. I think Pablo can build a jig and modify stock arms to that size himself.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[pablovent]

Hi guys;

I have a dune buggy only for hard off road, but my intentions with the Baja project are softer, I want to run legal street too, aesthetics and reliability are always important...many baja purist guys "anger" with this words !!.

I do import many engine parts and accesories from USA, but generally smaller to avoid excess freight and taxes.

Now I have two problems,; one, excessive 3x3 arms wide add my rear tires with excessive negative offset can be a big problem, sure complicate things with the law street traffic in my country, and Import large and heavy pieces makes the final cost too high for me.

Thank you for my English translation and time, but the best solution is too expensive for me now.
I'll go with stock bug arms until I can import from USA special parts for better results. I just hope that the camber achieve with the IRS jigs (switch to IRS) are compatible with future improved arms.

Best regards.

[Sandjunky]

Sorry man. I didn't catch that you were from Chile. Best of luck on your build.


Thanks for the info DustyMojave!

[pablovent]

[Multi69s]

I just wonder if it would be better to start from scratch vs. trying to use stock trailing arms? About 10? years ago, I made my own jig for building 2 x 3 trailing arms (copied Mark's at blind chicken). I called him, and he sold me all the flat pieces for making tubular arms. I bought my own DOM tubing, built the arms, and they are still going today.

Sometime starting from scratch is easier than re-engineering.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

[rockcrawl]

I extended a set of stock arms, +1.5" length and +3" lift. My intention was to test fit these on the car, make sure everything fits and all the angles and alignment are correct, then use them to make a jig to make a set of tubular arms. They are on the car now, and due to lack of time or just laziness I will probably leave them on. I'm not 100% confident that they will not bend, but they are holding up for now. Anyway, here are some pictures to give you an idea how I did it. The rest of the pictures are in my gallery.

[dustymojave]

Back in the 1980s, offroad race fabricators would often build their own IRS arms using the car for a jig. The hub forgings would be cut out of the ends of a pair of stock arms, and then mocked up in place with a straight piece of tube or pipe clamped into the stub axle bore of the hubs to set the camber and toe at zero. Then the tubes for the arms welded to the pivot tube bushing holder tube and spring plate brackets made to fit. One had to be careful to not bump or move the car or the bearing carriers during fabrication. Once a pair of arms were made, you could make a jig from them.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[dirtkeeper]

[jsturtlebuggy]

I stretched these trailing arms 2in using 3/16in by 2in wide flat stock. I use four pieces to box it in. Also added 1in by .095" wall round tubing to reinforce the arm. The shock has been relocated to the top of arm on a 3/16in thick plate. I made up temporary jigs to make them. They are on a sand buggy project. Distance between center of torsion bar and center of stub axle is 18-1/2in where stock is 16-1/2in.
They do 1in longer trailing arms stock width for racing classes that require them.

These are stock arms reinforced. Something like could be done with bending the tubing around where stock shocks would go. All shock may have a harder time controlling the movement of arm

_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[rockcrawl]

[pablovent]

Wow...........Really nice info!!!!

[pablovent]

Hi,
I'm working switch to IRS, all very well, I have only doubt about the two washers or shims that are on the tip of the trailing arm, they should be one on each side of the bushing?, inside the arm support looks a lip, it is for the shim?
Regards...

[cbeck]

The two washers per side are supposed to go between the bushing and the bolt head.