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brettsvw
Samba Member
Joined: November 22, 2007
Posts: 2145
Location: Florida
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brettsvw
Samba Member
Joined: November 22, 2007
Posts: 2145
Location: Florida
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Low Bräu
Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2003
Posts: 346
Location: Merritt Island, FL
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 Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 bus subaru conversion |
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| Stanleyn wrote: |
I joined this forum to get some answers ,not for people to tell me that I need to do homework.
Now I'm going to ask again.What trans and axel assy,either swing or IRS and what years can I use.I dont need to be lectured and dont worry about making it right as it will be 100%safe |
Not trying to be a d!ck but you get answers like that because your question is too broad. It's like asking "How long is a piece of string?" You can use any transmission Swing axle, IRS, baywindow 002, or Vanagon 091/094. They all have the same bolt pattern at the bell housing and can all be modified to work in a split bus. More so the split bus can be modified to work with the transmission.
For starters, what Subaru engine are you planning on running? They make more than one. Assuming you are using something from the past 20 years I would say you want the latest gearbox VW made for a rear wheel drive like the 094 that is in the late Vanagon. Even the 094 is not bullet proof with double the power (assuming you'll have double the power) it was originally designed for. Good luck.
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Independent German Auto
671 Fern Drive
Merritt Island, FL 32952
(321) 449-4665
Specializing in repair and maintenance for Porsche, BMW, Mini, Audi, and Volkswagen.
1952 Standard Beetle
1960 SO-23 Westfalia
1961 L-380 Turkis Deluxe Beetle
1985 Vanagon Country Homes Camper (work in progress - EG33 swap) |
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brettsvw
Samba Member
Joined: November 22, 2007
Posts: 2145
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:43 am Post subject: Re: 1966 bus subaru conversion |
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| Low Bräu wrote: |
| Stanleyn wrote: |
I joined this forum to get some answers ,not for people to tell me that I need to do homework.
Now I'm going to ask again.What trans and axel assy,either swing or IRS and what years can I use.I dont need to be lectured and dont worry about making it right as it will be 100%safe |
Not trying to be a d!ck but you get answers like that because your question is too broad. It's like asking "How long is a piece of string?" You can use any transmission Swing axle, IRS, baywindow 002, or Vanagon 091/094. They all have the same bolt pattern at the bell housing and can all be modified to work in a split bus. More so the split bus can be modified to work with the transmission. |
Baywindow 002, or Vanagon 091/094 are stronger. Something to consider for a person new to VW mechanicals, I have bought and drove 20 or more late vans and 90% of them you can hear the diff whining at highway speeds due to wear.
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My 59 kombi build.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=635003&highlight=
My buggy build.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=558601&highlight=
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=289807
Last edited by brettsvw on Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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POWER ON
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2007
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 bus subaru conversion |
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A good rebuilt freeway flyer Trans will be good enough. Just as long you don't hammer it. Drive it smooth and hard thru the gears is fine. We've built many conversions here and all run hard and strong till this day. When we say many we are talking over 20 in buggies, Vanagons, Things, Notchbacks, Ghia's and our latest a 63 Double Cab with a Vanagon automatic/AC. All with 2 liter turbos and 2.5 STI turbo motors. Once we learned this Subaru stuff with a lot of help from Outfront Motorsports we never went back to VW valve adjustments and carburetor adjustments. Different but once done it's like driving a modern vintage ride.
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60freak
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 861
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 bus subaru conversion |
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| ^ yes now that is some awesome stuff right there! EJ255 or EJ257 motor is the way to go! I know a few guys may prefer a n/a ej25 which is fine and dandy, but why go thru all the conversion work for just a n/a engine when you can go one extra step and rock a snail on it. But that's just my .02. |
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edgood1
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 2049
Location: Plymouth, MA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 bus subaru conversion |
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I've been thinking about going with an EJ22 in my '63 bus with as few modifications to the body as possible. I remember doing some quick measurements and it looked like you could just barely squeeze an EJ22 into the engine bay without modifying the sheet metal. I'm not sure if I accounted for the offset though.
I'm running a 3.88 ring and pinion with small nut reduction boxes. I figure this will give me pretty close to the same gearing as my vanagon syncro, which has the stock gearing and an EJ22...give or take tire size adjustments to get it dialed in. I cruise at 65mph right around 3500 rpms in my syncro and I'm happy with that. I tend to drive on the slower side anyways. I could upgrade to large nut reduction gearing or switch to bigger tires to lower the rpms if I'm not happy. The center section has a super diff and upgraded first gear main shaft. Can't hurt to beef it up where ever possible.
I have a few ideas for radiator installation. Ive seen a lot of different solutions to that challenge on here.
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1987 Syncro Westfalia powered by Subaru
1963 Panel to Deluxe Bus project :::: (photo album)
'65 Westfalia |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16865
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 bus subaru conversion |
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| 60freak wrote: |
| ^ yes now that is some awesome stuff right there! EJ255 or EJ257 motor is the way to go! I know a few guys may prefer a n/a ej25 which is fine and dandy, but why go thru all the conversion work for just a n/a engine when you can go one extra step and rock a snail on it. But that's just my .02. |
did you watch this?
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
sorry for the crappy quality and audio. cell phone on the wrong settings...while driving. so, turn the volume down and you only need to watch the first 40 seconds. I ran out of road...
Link
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a well build 2.5 is more than adequate to move a bus along. that speedo in the video isn't lying, as I calibrated it to match my GPS
additionally, a bus handles like a bag of shit. how fast do you want to go before you meet your maker?
I work on turbo Volvo's and Subaru's all day long. the added complexity just isn't worth it.
besides, look how sanitary it is, and ez to work on
my bus
daveark's bus
dumpy bus
turbo's are fun for sure, but just not worth the extra hassle imho. plus, when I do my conversions everything is laid out in such a way to be 100% easily reversible. to each their own....
and how many of you have driven a high horsepower bus? it's not what you think it is. if you plan on hammering it, it takes a lot of coordination to swing that 4 foot steering wheel around. bad shit happens fast in a bus, even faster with loads of h/p behind you
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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60freak
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 861
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 bus subaru conversion |
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| ^ Hey that's cool and nicely done conversions. I've had plenty of built na subies and they were certainly fun. However the boost factor just adds in that extra fun factor the na doesn't do for me. Different strokes for different folks. It's all good. I would never go thru the trouble of these swaps into my split, it's too much for a cereal box on wheels lol. It's nice to have my sti take care of my speed needs and my split for weekend and show cruising at a slow pace. Good luck to the op, hope it all turns out. |
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2true
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2004
Posts: 1218
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:28 am Post subject: Re: 1966 bus subaru conversion |
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Where do you Subaru guys plumb the radiators?
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AKA Destroyer of the Rants...... |
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Skate
SBS Hit Squad
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 995
Location: Acton Ca.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 bus subaru conversion |
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| 2true wrote: |
| Where do you Subaru guys plumb the radiators? |
I'm interested in this also. I know the popular choice is between the frame rails. I have a double door panel and it has the belly skins on it so that's not an option....
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AIRKEWLD
SBS NUMBER FOURTEEN 58.5 |
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edgood1
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 2049
Location: Plymouth, MA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 bus subaru conversion |
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I've seen a few with the radiator mounted in the driver side "battery tray" area.
heres a you tube clip of one:
Link
This would be my first choice, along with a pair of thermostatically controlled electric fans.
I don't know anything about that particular conversion but it looks like a EJ22 (possibly a sohc EJ25?) and it appears to fit in an unmodified engine bay.
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1987 Syncro Westfalia powered by Subaru
1963 Panel to Deluxe Bus project :::: (photo album)
'65 Westfalia |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16865
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 bus subaru conversion |
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in bay radiators cool poorly at best in a bay. I could only imagine what an epic disaster they would be in a split.
fellows has the kit laid out for a split bus
http://www.fellowsspeedshop.com/shop/
and before anyone gets all "I'd never run a radiator under the bus" just think where most of you have your oil coolers. by the time you notice your oil light, chances are it's game over.
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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edgood1
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 2049
Location: Plymouth, MA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 bus subaru conversion |
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it just needs a well engineered solution. I intend to do some airflow testing to find an ideal spot. I trust my own empirical data more than what i read on the interwebs.
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1987 Syncro Westfalia powered by Subaru
1963 Panel to Deluxe Bus project :::: (photo album)
'65 Westfalia |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16865
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 bus subaru conversion |
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I wish you all the best. if you can make it work, patent it. given the data several folks here posted about trying to cool a big air cooled in a split I can save you the time and tell you the airflow to feed an air cooled that is modified just isn't there with a split.
my texas client is having a bit of an issue with overcooling...so, yea math is pretty important when it comes to these conversion 
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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edgood1
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 2049
Location: Plymouth, MA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:29 am Post subject: Re: 1966 bus subaru conversion |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| my texas client is having a bit of an issue with overcooling...so, yea math is pretty important when it comes to these conversion |
VW Air cooling is a LOT harder to figure out than typical water cooling. You gotta account for fan CFM, fan RPMs vs engine RPM, have a custom thermostat/flaps, thermal conductivity of the metals involved, etc... very hard to get right. I see a lot of people just throw the biggest everything at them with no thermostat/flaps and the engines don't run at proper temp. Overheating is bad, but overcooling is also bad.
Watercooling is harder to screw up. You can tune your engine operating temperature with a wide range of available thermostats, and supplement radiator air flow with electric fans programmed to keep the temperature within a certain range.
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1987 Syncro Westfalia powered by Subaru
1963 Panel to Deluxe Bus project :::: (photo album)
'65 Westfalia |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16865
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:45 am Post subject: Re: 1966 bus subaru conversion |
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| edgood1 wrote: |
Watercooling is harder to screw up.. |
I submit to you
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5...;start=300
that's where the fun starts. as I said, it isn't as easy as you would like to make it out. even under the bus, I have tricks to dial it in. so, don't for a minute think a split would cool better with tiny horizontal slits in the side.
I spent a whole vacation from 7am till about 1:30-2am trying different approaches.
I can tell you what the different Subaru water pumps move in terms of GPM @ what RPM. I can also bore you with cross flow vs down flow radiator specs too. it's not as easy as everyone would like to think to keep a Subaru engine in the OEM operating range.
I have pages and pages of notes compiled from real world situations. I didn't go into this blind.
I also did it. I didn't just talk about doing it. I find it amazing how many people like to lay out "if I were you, I would xxxx" and never really step up and actually do it
again, if you make it work patent it
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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panel
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2001
Posts: 1090
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 bus subaru conversion |
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[quote="brettsvw"]
| panel wrote: |
| Your work is top quality, Nice bus and build. |
Oh thanks so much for the compliment......just got her running the other day but the timing belt tensioner was knocking.
I put my radiator in the middle of the frame rails with 2 x 10" electric fans on top sucking. Radiator is from a V6 Jeep something.
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My '65-Subaru EJ20 Turbo conversion |
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Stanleyn
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2016
Posts: 47
Location: Eliot Me
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2016 11:08 am Post subject: Re: 1966 bus subaru conversion |
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Ok I am back home in Maine and have started to dismantle the bus.The next step is a rotiserrie as the frame rails are no good and need replaced.
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brettsvw
Samba Member
Joined: November 22, 2007
Posts: 2145
Location: Florida
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