Heater tube issues

[Goodhand77]

Was very surprised after getting home after 4500km road trip , found that the drive home was much colder and family not to impressed , I didn't investigate to hard until I got home and look what I found ?
Has anyone else had such problems , I installed these myself brand new and made sure insulation was inside tubes but they both still had holes completely through them causing major heat loss

So thinking I will install flexible steel exhaust hose in place of these plastic tubes

Anyone done the same ??

Pretty surprised

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my world consists of my three girls , my wife and my daughters

and my 72'S!!!!!

1972 beetle sedan almost original

1972 westfalia current project, and loving it!!!

[BayCreamPuff]

My factory tubes looked like yours. The replacements I got from justcampers are holding up well so far.

I'm sure flexible steel would work fine. I'd just be concerned with the proximity to the wires coming off the starter.
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Cream Puff
'79 CA Stock FI Deluxe Campmobile

Earl Grey
'87 GoWesty 2.2 Westfalia

Marsha Mellow
'00 Eurovan VR6 Full Camper

[Gregg in the 603]

Those don't look stock. If I remember, the coiling extends throughout the length of them. There is no smooth area. I didn't want to trust aftermarket, too many horror stories of them melting just like yours appear to have done. I used high-temp aircraft silicon ducting and rtv to seal up some used ones. Works really well.

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1979 Mexico Beige Westy auto
Dirty Dover, NH

[volksworld]

i've never seen a factory one do that and i've owned a vw repair shop since 1975

[Wildthings]

I agree that what you have is some kind of aftermarket crapola.

[Alex6373]

Anyone have a source for the front "y"pipe?.

[Wildthings]

[captincanuck]

You are more then welcome to my original outer tubes if you want to rebuild them. Mice ate the insides out and now I'm going water cooled so I don't need them.
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1979 Westfalia "FireFly" Subaru 2.2 with Subaru gears 5spd.
Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634777&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[Hoody]

If you don't mind spending a few bucks the best way to IMO is to get a set of original tubes. Take them apart...the ends unscrew. Clean them really well with a solution of hot water and Dawn. Throw everything away inside except the plastic shells. Use the high temp silicone duct wrap it in mighty mat insulation and use the silicone cuffs from a Bug for the ends. If you look at "EcheBus's" build thread he has the pics how to do it or I can send you some measurements and where to buy the stuff you need to do this. What you end up with is a much better design then the original without the asbestos cuffs and it will be much better insulated. The other bonus is that you can remove the accordion tubes and wash out the silicone hose if it gets dirty. I have a set of Bug cuffs if you decide to go this route. Hope this helps.

[Goodhand77]

Very very good info guys , I have never actually seen original tubes my bus didn't come with engine
So I bought new tubes thinking they would be great ,
They sucked wow
Learning slot about after market crap for sure , ( but they look so shiny and nice )

So I'm contacting fellow buddy who is offering up his tubes and I will gladly rebuild !!!!
Going to check out "echoes busses " rebuild

Thx guys
_________________
my world consists of my three girls , my wife and my daughters

and my 72'S!!!!!

1972 beetle sedan almost original

1972 westfalia current project, and loving it!!!

[a-marshal]

Where did those Tubes come from?

What were you using for the grommets between the Heater Tubes and the Heater Boxes?

I ask because this is something I would like to do myself and would like to know which reproduction stuff to avoid if I can't find decent used. (Not going to use original asbestos grommets)

[Goodhand77]

i bought heater tubes from cip1
didn't last three months and only one long road trip

i don't have grommets ??? not sure what you mean ?
i never had engine upon purchase so never saw an original set up before

i have heater boxes that have two 5 inch appox, each steel tubes that come off back of heater boxes than the y attach to these crappy heater tubes , but at each end of heater tubes there is an orange colour silicone 3 inch gasket type thing i will take a photo of them in a few

if anyone one has photos of the complete proper setup from the back of heater boxes to the y pipe that would be great !!!!!
thanks guys and beware of aftermarket wow what a let down at a terrible time
_________________
my world consists of my three girls , my wife and my daughters

and my 72'S!!!!!

1972 beetle sedan almost original

1972 westfalia current project, and loving it!!!

[a-marshal]

I don't know why I wrote grommet.. it was the silicone gaskets I meant.

I don't know if you have found the ratwell microfiche index yet but it is a pretty good resource for pics.

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/Microfiche.html

Sadly the gasket is not shown on the fiche for 1700+ engines, but I'm pretty sure that they were used since I removed two asbestos ones from mine.

[BayCreamPuff]

The one listed on cip1 looks like it doesn't include the protective cuffs, metal or rubber.

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-043-255-355-A

I think these are what you're looking for.

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-111-819-945-PR

The ones from justkampers come looking very similar to the stock ones with all the proper protection for the ends.

http://www.justkampers.com/113-255-355-heater-tube-bundle-kit.html
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Cream Puff
'79 CA Stock FI Deluxe Campmobile

Earl Grey
'87 GoWesty 2.2 Westfalia

Marsha Mellow
'00 Eurovan VR6 Full Camper

[busdaddy]

No need to re engineer anything, just buy good parts, like these: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1790917 and 4 of these: http://www.airheadparts.com/vintage-vw-parts/heate...1819945-oe , job done.
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

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[Alex6373]

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[Alex6373]

[Alex6373]

[aerosurfer]

[raygreenwood]

I have seen that happen numerous times.....especially before i learned what causes it.

If you have a gasoline furnace and the fuel pump output volume is set incorrectly......or if the in duct thermostat is faulty due ro age or covered with crud.....it will run fuel pump cycles too long and overheat at the output ports.

If you have higher than normal airflow through the unit.....extra or larger fans.....or are just very efficient with no air leaks and running at highway speeds with maximum air velocity through the system. ......it can be overheating at the output ports of the heater unit.....and still not have chamber temps high enough to trip the overheat switch.

I literally melted the tubes off of my 411 twice before I figured this out.

NOTE: this can also happen even if you are not overheating.....if the inner rock wool liner that surrounds the wire tube inside. ...has a gap between the end of the rock wool inner tube and the outside cuff.
It allows the hottest air coming just out of the heater.....to flow on both sides of the rock wool inner insulation. The rock wool can handle 1000°C......the outer corrugated plastic is polyethylene.

The melt point of polyethylene is 240° to 280°F.....maximum. These heater ducts melt at about 250°F.

And.....there is nothing "better" about stock heater duct material. Its all polyethylene.

Of course...stock probably fits better.....but the material melts at the same temp. So....you either have excessive heat......or the rock wool heat tube on the inside is too short and does not pass all the way to the cuff allowing heat to leak around and melt the corrugated outer tube.

From looking at your pictures.....others are correct that these are likely not stock. The insuating material....while its fiberglass instead of rock wool....which is just fine......you will notice....does not reach all the way up to and through the cuff.
This allowed full heat to blow straight on the corrugated outer tube.

Its less of a materials issue and mostly a poor assembly issue. Ray