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pepsiguy78
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Vancouver,WA
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 Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:40 pm Post subject: Starter replacement |
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I need to "bug" the wrench gurus on Samba again - I am trying to learn  .
Question: I just bought a starter from NAPA for my 1974 SB and it has a brass bushing. Will I need to remove the old bushing on my 74? I never saw that on YouTube. I don't want to buy a P239 bushing extractor tool if I don't have to.
The SB has had a few "no start" episodes where I just hear a click that I think is coming from the direction of the starter. After a few turns of the key in the ignition the car started and has been fine the last few days. So not wanting to get stuck out and about I am deciding to swap the starter.
Thanks to all,
Rick |
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Q-Dog
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8700
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Starter replacement |
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| pepsiguy78 wrote: |
I need to "bug" the wrench gurus on Samba again - I am trying to learn .
Question: I just bought a starter from NAPA for my 1974 SB and it has a brass bushing. Will I need to remove the old bushing on my 74? I never saw that on YouTube. I don't want to buy a P239 bushing extractor tool if I don't have to.
The SB has had a few "no start" episodes where I just hear a click that I think is coming from the direction of the starter. After a few turns of the key in the ignition the car started and has been fine the last few days. So not wanting to get stuck out and about I am deciding to swap the starter.
Thanks to all,
Rick |
You could also have a failing ignition switch, or a bad ground strap at the transmission. The part about turning the key several times to get it to start suggests the switch. Not saying it is not the starter, but I would do some tests to be sure before changing it.
_________________
Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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pepsiguy78
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Vancouver,WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Starter replacement |
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| I should have mentioned that the ignition switch and the lock cylinder were both replaced within the last 30 days. |
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Joe Bence
Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 501
Location: San Diego, CA
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Joe Bence
Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 501
Location: San Diego, CA
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LARRYHARDEMAN
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2016
Posts: 61
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Starter replacement |
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| pepsiguy78 wrote: |
| I should have mentioned that the ignition switch and the lock cylinder were both replaced within the last 30 days. |
Did your troubles begin before or after replacing the ignition switch? |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Starter replacement |
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Actually, I've never replaced the starter bushing in either my 1970 (260K) or my '71 (141K). I'd lightly grease the tip of the starter and the gear teeth before installing.
Instead of buying a bushing removal tool or dropping the engine, I'd exchange for a self-supported autostick starter.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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pepsiguy78
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Vancouver,WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Starter replacement |
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| LARRYHARDEMAN wrote: |
| pepsiguy78 wrote: |
| I should have mentioned that the ignition switch and the lock cylinder were both replaced within the last 30 days. |
Did your troubles begin before or after replacing the ignition switch? |
The click - no start- just started and luckily happened in the driveway. The battery was fully charged (I checked) when it happened. I cycled the key a few times and it turned over and has been doing so ever since, I just dont want to get stranded so I plan to swap the starter. As advices, I will lightly grease up the shaft and gear upon installation.
It will have to wait till next week as I am heading to the NASCAR race in Vegas this afternoon. |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15987
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Starter replacement |
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| pepsiguy78 wrote: |
| The click - no start- just started and luckily happened in the driveway. The battery was fully charged (I checked) when it happened. I cycled the key a few times and it turned over and has been doing so ever since, |
Test the #50 junction below the rear seat. This is the heavy gauge red or red/black wire with a junction just before the wire exits near the center tunnel at the rear of the pan on its way to the starter solenoid. When you turn the ignition key to START there should be 12v on this wire. If the voltage is low or intermittent, then you will have an intermittent starter.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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pepsiguy78
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Vancouver,WA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Starter replacement |
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| Cusser wrote: |
Actually, I've never replaced the starter bushing in either my 1970 (260K) or my '71 (141K). I'd lightly grease the tip of the starter and the gear teeth before installing.
Instead of buying a bushing removal tool or dropping the engine, I'd exchange for a self-supported autostick starter. |
I am assuming that the auto stick starter will fit without any alterations? |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
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68IHscout
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2010
Posts: 3122
Location: santa ana ca
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Starter replacement |
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| pepsiguy78 wrote: |
| Cusser wrote: |
Actually, I've never replaced the starter bushing in either my 1970 (260K) or my '71 (141K). I'd lightly grease the tip of the starter and the gear teeth before installing.
Instead of buying a bushing removal tool or dropping the engine, I'd exchange for a self-supported autostick starter. |
I am assuming that the auto stick starter will fit without any alterations? |
when mine went out on my 74 i replaced it with automatic starter no problems... |
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pepsiguy78
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Vancouver,WA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: Starter replacement |
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| Finally got around to installing the new starter; I took the first one I bought from NAPA back and got the auto stick style. It went in with very little hassles. The one bolt behind the fan gave me a bit of a headache when it came time to replace it - I cleaned up the bolt and nut really clean so the nut threaded back on smoothly and it made it much easier to hold onto the stud and start the nut on and get it finger tight before wrangling a wrench on it. |
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pepsiguy78
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Vancouver,WA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Starter replacement |
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| Next up for the sun bug is the shift linkage bushing. Let's see how long that takes me? It is spring chinook salmon season in the northwest and there is a great need to "rip some lips" |
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carsdlt
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2012
Posts: 317
Location: So. OC, Calif.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: Starter replacement |
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Go for it, bud! Yank one of those silvery beasts out of the river and onto your dinner table! Nothing finer 
_________________
Thanx, DLT
'73 181 stock 1600 - "Dr. Bombay"
"If it works, don't fix it....let it break on its own." |
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carsdlt
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2012
Posts: 317
Location: So. OC, Calif.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: Starter replacement |
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Go for it, bud! Yank one of those silvery beasts out of the river and onto your dinner table! Nothing finer
_________________
Thanx, DLT
'73 181 stock 1600 - "Dr. Bombay"
"If it works, don't fix it....let it break on its own." |
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Tim Donahoe
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012
Posts: 11740
Location: Redding, CA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Starter replacement |
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Pepsi, here's a tip for that starter bolt installation:
Got to any hardware stor and buy a small tub of plumber's putty. It's a Playdough kind of product, used by plumbers for various sealing applications, and is very inexpensive.
Clean your threads, first. Then clean the back side if the "D-bolt" head. Now take a small amount of plumbers putty and make a snake shape--like kids make when playing with clay or Playdough. Take this snake and press it around the inside surface of the D bolt, so that when you press and shove the bolt home, a layer of putty will hold the bolt against the starter ear.
Go around to the engine side and carefully start your nut onto the bolt. The putty will hold the bolt from slipping back on you.
Tighten the nut by hand, then finally with your wrench.
The putty will squish away, except for a very thin layer. Don't worry about it. It will not glue the bolt to the starter ear.
Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
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rockerarm
Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2009
Posts: 3552
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Starter replacement |
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Hi. Since you have installed the rebuilt starter you may want to do a little testing. I would perform a voltage drop test from the battery post to the push on terminal at the starter. Using a DVOM (digital volt ohm meter) on the 12v scale, clip the positive onto the battery positive, and clip the negative onto the terminal 50 at the starter. Crank the starter and observe the meter's reading. This is the total voltage drop in this circuit. If excessive, probably 2volts and I would investigate further. You can do the same for the ground circuit. You can also narrow down the diagnostics by performing the voltage drop test to smaller sections along this circuit.
Hope this helps, Bill |
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pepsiguy78
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Vancouver,WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: Starter replacement |
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| rockerarm wrote: |
Hi. Since you have installed the rebuilt starter you may want to do a little testing. I would perform a voltage drop test from the battery post to the push on terminal at the starter. Using a DVOM (digital volt ohm meter) on the 12v scale, clip the positive onto the battery positive, and clip the negative onto the terminal 50 at the starter. Crank the starter and observe the meter's reading. This is the total voltage drop in this circuit. If excessive, probably 2volts and I would investigate further. You can do the same for the ground circuit. You can also narrow down the diagnostics by performing the voltage drop test to smaller sections along this circuit.
Hope this helps, Bill |
Bill, thanks for the advice. The starter seems to have done the trick with my intermittent no start - click and nothin' events. I did find a cut in the insulation on the "small" wire going to the starter and replaced it at the same time as the starter. I don't know how much that accounted to my problems but I am glad I swapped it out. |
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pepsiguy78
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Vancouver,WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: Starter replacement |
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| Tim Donahoe wrote: |
Pepsi, here's a tip for that starter bolt installation:
Got to any hardware stor and buy a small tub of plumber's putty. It's a Playdough kind of product, used by plumbers for various sealing applications, and is very inexpensive.
Clean your threads, first. Then clean the back side if the "D-bolt" head. Now take a small amount of plumbers putty and make a snake shape--like kids make when playing with clay or Playdough. Take this snake and press it around the inside surface of the D bolt, so that when you press and shove the bolt home, a layer of putty will hold the bolt against the starter ear.
Go around to the engine side and carefully start your nut onto the bolt. The putty will hold the bolt from slipping back on you.
Tighten the nut by hand, then finally with your wrench.
The putty will squish away, except for a very thin layer. Don't worry about it. It will not glue the bolt to the starter ear.
Tim |
Tim, I heard about that tip but tried it without and it sure would have been easier if I had played with the putty snake.
Thanks, Rick |
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