Kubel prices

[356ride]

Could anyone shed some light on the prices of kubelwagens these days. I dont really know much about these but have seen one that looks nice but may be completely wrong.
Here is the ad for the kubel
http://www.dpclassics.co.uk/collections/cars/products/volkswagen-kubelwagen-1943
Seems pricey but is it the going rate??
Any feedback much appreciated
Thanks

[1960Turkis]

I am not into Kubels aswell, but thougt I could post this ad so you have something to compare with.

http://www.autotrader.nl/auto/volkswagen-kubel/1942/ede/78nr2/volkswagen-kubel-typ82-wagen/

[kdf38]

I am into Kübels, but I would not give 18.000 for one.

[Mike Sal]

I keep hearing kubels have reached the low 50k U.S. value, but I don't know how many have actually sold for that much. the UK one mentioned in the first post seems too high to me ($77k U.S.).
Mike S

[Martin Southwell]

As a Kubel owner for the past 25+ years, I can tell you that most of them sell without being advertised, hence why you don't see many for sale, and the ones that are, are often hugely over priced for what they are.

There is a new variable in the equation these days, and that is in the form of reproduction bodies from the Czech Republic, which are excellent, but it is not unknown for these to be sold on as originals to the unsuspecting.

I can think of one case where the person paid very big bucks, not too long ago, similar price to that being advertised at present, for something that looks the part, but is a new body, on a post war chassis.

[ente_kaefer]

[blood]

There are asking prices and selling prices, having a period correct engine alone is a 10,000.00 expense if you buy good parts and do a pro job on it. In the USA today a decent kubel with a 36 horse powerplant should run a little over 50,000.00 ,The prices have been experiencing a substantial run up in recent years as many German classics have also followed suit. Every body has their own opinion and mine is to buy the best you can afford and you will see the most appreciation and have the best experience. I feel like I have never paid too much but surely I have bought too early.
David

[Who.Me?]

[volks1500]

I currently have a 43 Kubel with a 36hp engine in it. I bought years ago so its price doesn't compare to prices now. I feel like the biggest problem is not the price but finding a Kubel for sale. I know of one at the moment that's for sale over seas that's been restored but the asking price is north of $100k. To me a good driver is worth around $50k-$60k but a well restored one I would bet would be worth close to the $100k mark.

[risk]

This 1943 just sold at an auction in Matoon, Illinois for $19,900. (no title) Guess I should have bid on it! Doh!

here is the auction with more pics.


https://bauerauction.hibid.com/catalog/168288/sun-...oins-gold/

[mikeandkirsti]

The pictures do not show the serial number on the chassis or engine number but the vehicle seems quite original with an original data plate, steering wheel and dash/speedo. If the serial number matches or yet better the engine which at least has WW2 components like generator plate, this is a steal. An original dash and speedo alone recently sold for over 5500 Euros.

A PROPERLY restored (original Type 82 components and not pieced from different cars which means at least body and pan match) Kübel today is well worth from $40 000 up depending on originality and quality with best examples nearing $100K +. With this in mind, please remember that MOST Kübels are not very original, have been fixed with newer or repro parts (complete repro bodies) and newer engines, very often 30 hp (DIN), parts swapped (eg. 1942 pan and 1944 body or very often post war pan or worse, post war pan and repro body with just an original title or not even that), posts war wheels/steering wheel, speedo, lights. All these original components are VERY expensive and hard to find. VERY FEW reach top dollar and pieced together ones never reach $40K.

[Martin Southwell]

Above you correctly say " please remember that MOST Kübels are not very original, have been fixed with newer or repro parts (complete repro bodies) and newer engines, very often 30 hp (DIN), parts swapped (eg. 1942 pan and 1944 body or very often post war pan or worse, post war pan and repro body with just an original title or not even that), posts war wheels/steering wheel, speedo, lights"

There are very good evolutionary reasons for this. The 1st of these, is that none were originally purchased by doting new owners, who garaged them, & polished them on Sundays. They were delivered straight into a war scenario, along with the ravages this brought about, and an average life span measured in weeks.

At the end of the war, what was left behind was eagerly snapped up by the military and government services, who along with civilians, who, because of the serious lack of transportation available to them at the time, were keen to get hold of the remains of the much admired Kubel (A Cabrio when all is said and done) and do whatever was required to get it back on the road. As we see in many pictures, this led to all sorts of ingenious adaptations.

Then decades of private ownership (including wear and tear & poor storage) roll past, and particularly from the 70's on, we see war reenactors acquiring vehicles, whose main aim seems to have something resembling a Kubel for reenactor use. In those days, there was nobody making reproduction parts, and people did what they had to do to look the part, and keep the vehicle rolling. As many Beetle parts fitted, and the early, post war stuff was generally available as spares by then, they were used.

My own Kubel went through this phase, with one previous owner creating a dash speedo panel in wood! The seats at a very early stage, presumably just post war in Italy, were padded out with hay. And so it went on! There are a million reasons why a 44 body would have found its way onto a 42 chassis, from the war time, to the present day.

From my observations, even these expensive, so say, highly original Kubels that come up for sale, are not what they purport to be. Classic examples being 1944/5 vehicles with the prettier pre mid 43 dash panels, and wrong period engine lids and Notek light positions.

A couple of years ago, I was asked my opinion on the authenticity of a Kubel purchased by a 3rd party, who had paid around £70K ($90K US) for it. On inspection, there was nothing wartime about it at all. Even the stub axles had been (nicely) machined from scratch. Many Kubels, have previously changed hands without being advertised, but with the advent of the internet, things have changed, and those not taking advice can easily be caught out. It's only in recent times that people have been overly 'sniffy' about detail, and still many people are flexible about this aspect, and not hung up on near impossible 100% originality, especially as many reproduction items are now available to fit.

As ever, Kubels in all their forms remain sought after, and the laws of supply and demand will dictate what people are prepared to pay. As stated above, the advent of reproduction bodies has changed the equation somewhat, but at around £25K for the bare shell alone, they aren't cheap, but goes to show the enduring desire for ownership of one of these iconic, fun, vehicles, warts and all.

[Martin Southwell]

I was talking to Hans Schuckenboehmer, the Kubel & Schwimmer parts specialist, at Bad Camberg last weekend, and he informs me that the people who make the reproduction Kubel bodies in the Czech Republic, made 90 new Kubel bodies last year. There is evidently a big demand out there for them. Shame they can't also make Split Beetle bodies!

[ckissick]

A reproduction split beetle wouldn't make economic sense. You could probably find a decent enough real split fairly easily for less than the cost of a reproduction. In contrast, my Beck Spyder cost me $35K at a time when a real Spyder had just sold for $5 million.
_________________
Charlie
1950 Beetle
1983 Westfalia
1989 syncro Tristar
1966 Porsche 912
1989 Beck Spyder
2007 GTI Fahrenheit

[T2_681]

[Martin Southwell]

You could be right, and that sounds sensible, but I'm sure that is what Hans told me, even allowing for something being lost in translation. Having bought something from the manufacturers recently, I commented on this, hoping for confirmation one way or the other, but no information was forthcoming.

[T2_681]

Then it is a question which of the principal suppliers of KdF parts he had in mind. The guys near Prague (kdf.cz) or Vladimir Lehar (leharmilitaryvehicles)? Vladimir recently told me and it was also a complaint that he had already bulit nearly 80 KdF 82 bodies but none of them for himself.

[Martin Southwell]

As I understand it, kdf.cz are agents for Vladimir's panels & parts, and possibly assemble Kubel bodies, plus repairing them, so there is only one 'mass' manufacturer of panels & assembler of Kubel bodies.

If you have spoken to Vladimir on the subject, and he mentioned having produced 80 bodies in total, then that is obviously the true story.

That's the trouble, when you are making/repairing things for others for an income, then you frequently don't have time to do the same things for yourself. It's like builders who work on other people's buildings, and doesn't have the time/money to work on their own places.

[T2_681]

Actually, both kdf.cz guys and Vladimir assemble replica bodies as well as selling some of the other party's products. The kdf guys also offer complete restorations (which Vladimir does not) and if you wish, they can build you a complete vehicle on a chassis made from original components or alternatively on a modified postwar bug chassis. There is no doubt the kdf guys have a huge stock of old parts mostly saved about 3 decades back when they started the business. Everything was easy and cheap to get back then and they probably know how to get some valuable components even today.

[bad1916]