| Author |
Message |
skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
|
 Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
 |
|
hope ford does a better job.
this self driving car googled its way into a bus
https://www.yahoo.com/news/video/video-shows-google-self-driving-161910117.html
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Zeen
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 1308
Location: The Sunny Part of Michigan
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
|
|
That's going to be one of the major hurdles to get over. Statistically, computers are much safer drivers than humans. It's not even close. But they can't be perfect, and there is just something scarier about a machine causing mayhem than an idiot human, even if it's much less often.
_________________
The consequences of your decisions should not be confused with fate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Enkiel
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2004
Posts: 2771
Location: Quebec, Canada
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:43 am Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
|
|
| Zeen wrote: |
That's going to be one of the major hurdles to get over. Statistically, computers are much safer drivers than humans. It's not even close. But they can't be perfect, and there is just something scarier about a machine causing mayhem than an idiot human, even if it's much less often. |
the first stats that came out from the google self driving car was that the few accident it was in was caused by other drivers...
which kinda make sense, there's stupid driver anywhere, and even a computer can hardly predict stupidity.
_________________
1964 Turkis Flipseat |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Volks Wagen
Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2013
Posts: 2926
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
|
|
| Dwayne1m wrote: |
| ach60 wrote: |
The question was "who asked for a self driving car?"
|
Yes, I did ask that question and the more I think about it the more confused I get. For instance, today I was talking with 2 coworkers, Jeff(47) and Chris(27). Chris had never heard of a self driving car. Jeff heard about it but was under the impression it was all Sci Fi stuff. I then showed them a YouTube video of a driverless car. Chris said that nobody will want one b/c they will obey the speed limit and not be fast enough. Both guys were amazed at first at the technology, but then at the same time they both said, "Why would anyone want one of these?" Good question.
Step back a minute and think about business. In order for a business to spend millions on R&D on a new and revolutionary product, such as a driverless car, there has to be something on the other end to benefit the business. Either there is a desire/need for the product by the public, or the business is being coerced by someone. Somehow and someway the business has to benefit from the new product. Now ask yourself this, why are ALL car manufacturers building these cars when the public is not asking for them? I can understand a company like Google or Garmin experimenting with making a driverless car b/c that is a neat little toy specifically related to their line of business, but why is every car maker building them when there is no outcry for them? If you owned a business would you spend millions creating a product nobody was asking for? What am I missing? |
What you are missing is the same as has gone on in every aspect of the information technology industry, just now extended to vehicles... and that is... the marketing guys are fucking up the whole thing. You've got a bunch of idiots in marketing who do no research, come up with some crazy suggestion based on some half information they overheard somewhere and turn around and advertise it and hype it, then tell the tech guys to get it done, while they jump to another marketing job in another company and will have it on their cv but not be accountable for anything... I assume you are familiar with the term vaporware?
_________________
1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.
I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34018
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
|
|
This is a clear example where the manufacturer would be held liable. But that doesn't bring back the dead.
I just don't see the liability issues being resolved. The whole idea of the self-driving car is so that you don't have to pay attention. But then the "out" for the manufacturer is that you can (and therefore SHOULD) take over if the unexpected happens. Given normal human reaction time, this won't happen in time, but their lawyers will sure hang you for not being attentive enough to take over with nearly no warning.
Accidents happen today with a (nominally) attentive driver in control. Add the time delay if inattention (which is the whole point!) and it can only get worse.
Laws and marketing won't change this fact of human reaction time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zeen
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 1308
Location: The Sunny Part of Michigan
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
|
|
| KTPhil wrote: |
This is a clear example where the manufacturer would be held liable. But that doesn't bring back the dead.
I just don't see the liability issues being resolved. The whole idea of the self-driving car is so that you don't have to pay attention. But then the "out" for the manufacturer is that you can (and therefore SHOULD) take over if the unexpected happens. Given normal human reaction time, this won't happen in time, but their lawyers will sure hang you for not being attentive enough to take over with nearly no warning.
Accidents happen today with a (nominally) attentive driver in control. Add the time delay if inattention (which is the whole point!) and it can only get worse.
Laws and marketing won't change this fact of human reaction time. |
The statistics will win in the end. Automakers get sued and held liable already when idiot humans screw up, so it may be cheaper when there are fewer accidents, even if they are clearly to blame when an autonomous car does cause harm. Computers won't have giant key chains that turn the car off and lose steering control when it hits a bump, for example. The big push will come from the insurance companies. They'll have the mandatory Snap Shot type devices spying on you and jacking up your rates when they don't like your style, and have cheaper rates on self driving cars that get in fewer accidents.
_________________
The consequences of your decisions should not be confused with fate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Volks Wagen
Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2013
Posts: 2926
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
|
|
| Zeen wrote: |
| KTPhil wrote: |
This is a clear example where the manufacturer would be held liable. But that doesn't bring back the dead.
I just don't see the liability issues being resolved. The whole idea of the self-driving car is so that you don't have to pay attention. But then the "out" for the manufacturer is that you can (and therefore SHOULD) take over if the unexpected happens. Given normal human reaction time, this won't happen in time, but their lawyers will sure hang you for not being attentive enough to take over with nearly no warning.
Accidents happen today with a (nominally) attentive driver in control. Add the time delay if inattention (which is the whole point!) and it can only get worse.
Laws and marketing won't change this fact of human reaction time. |
The statistics will win in the end. Automakers get sued and held liable already when idiot humans screw up, so it may be cheaper when there are fewer accidents, even if they are clearly to blame when an autonomous car does cause harm. Computers won't have giant key chains that turn the car off and lose steering control when it hits a bump, for example. The big push will come from the insurance companies. They'll have the mandatory Snap Shot type devices spying on you and jacking up your rates when they don't like your style, and have cheaper rates on self driving cars that get in fewer accidents. |
Yeah, but what's the point of a self driving car that gets in an accident? Self driving cars should have no accidents. This means there would be no need for 3rd party liability insurance or comprehensive cover. Just fire, theft and damage. So why are you so sure the insurance companies would want this? It removes 2 of their products. Sounds like if they supported it then it would be shooting themselves in the foot. No-one normal is going to get into a self driving car if there is a chance it could do something wrong on its own and get in an accident, so the manufacturers would have to guarantee it was foolproof.
Would you buy a self aiming and shooting gun?
_________________
1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.
I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
|
|
| Volks Wagen wrote: |
| Would you buy a self aiming and shooting gun? |
 thanks. cleaning ice tea out of my nose
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
|
|
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| Volks Wagen wrote: |
| Would you buy a self aiming and shooting gun? |
thanks. cleaning ice tea out of my nose |
and.. now me... coffee spray off the laptop..
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Air-Cooled Head
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2002
Posts: 4070
Location: Chicago Suburbs
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
|
|
| Dwayne1m wrote: |
If you owned a business would you spend millions creating a product nobody was asking for? What am I missing? |
What you're missing is "commercialism". Simple Definition of commercialism: the attitude or actions of people who are influenced too strongly by the desire to earn money or buy goods rather than by other values.
I work in I.T. where solutions in search of a problem are common. Do you really think everyone was crying for new & improved shampoo? Did Quilted Northern spring up due to overwhelming demand for softer, more absorbent TP? How about the "Start a show in one room, and finish it in another" commercial? Seriously, who needs that? Was everyone tired of Coke and wanting a new Coke?
Creating a product, then creating demand through marketing is very common. (And New Coke proved that it don't always work. )
_________________
Everything known to man has been written.
Readers are Leaders! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zeen
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 1308
Location: The Sunny Part of Michigan
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
|
|
| Volks Wagen wrote: |
Yeah, but what's the point of a self driving car that gets in an accident? Self driving cars should have no accidents. This means there would be no need for 3rd party liability insurance or comprehensive cover. Just fire, theft and damage. So why are you so sure the insurance companies would want this? It removes 2 of their products. Sounds like if they supported it then it would be shooting themselves in the foot. No-one normal is going to get into a self driving car if there is a chance it could do something wrong on its own and get in an accident, so the manufacturers would have to guarantee it was foolproof. |
There is a lot of space between absolutely foolproof and the current 33,000 deaths per year. Better will not be stopped because it's not perfect.
Insurance companies just care about taking in more in premiums than they pay out in claims. They've already shown the ability to raise premiums even with safer cars and fewer accidents. They'll be fine.
| Volks Wagen wrote: |
Would you buy a self aiming and shooting gun? |
Yours for $22,000.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23571-self-aiming-rifle-turns-novices-into-expert-snipers/
What's frightening is the thing has WiFi. Anything that can be reached on the Internet can be hacked.
_________________
The consequences of your decisions should not be confused with fate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
|
|
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| Volks Wagen wrote: |
| Would you buy a self aiming and shooting gun? |
thanks. cleaning ice tea out of my nose |
and.. now me... coffee spray off the laptop..
|
I assume it comes with lie dectector and a bullshit dectector too  .....b it would be quite usefull in the dc area.....and many others. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spezialist
Banned
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 1941
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
|
|
quote from time mag. "first we gotta get it legal, then the next step is to make it "required", f that.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
|
|
"The problem's plain to see,
Too much technology,
Machines to save our lives,
Machines de-humanize,"
.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Air-Cooled Head
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2002
Posts: 4070
Location: Chicago Suburbs
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
|
|
| Air-Cooled Head wrote: |
Creating a product, then creating demand through marketing is very common. (And New Coke proved that it don't always work. ) |
As evidenced by Apple's unveiling of a New, smaller I-Phone. After leading the bigger=better parade, they'll now tell us that this is the best I-Phone, ever! And we just can't live w/o it.
_________________
Everything known to man has been written.
Readers are Leaders! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Q-Dog
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8700
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
|
|
| Air-Cooled Head wrote: |
| Air-Cooled Head wrote: |
Creating a product, then creating demand through marketing is very common. (And New Coke proved that it don't always work. ) |
As evidenced by Apple's unveiling of a New, smaller I-Phone. After leading the bigger=better parade, they'll now tell us that this is the best I-Phone, ever! And we just can't live w/o it. |
Except that isn't how the new phone came about. Apple sold 30 Million of it's 2-plus-year-old 4" iphones last year. Clearly the market for the device still exists.
I am one of the many that have been begging Apple for an up-to-spec 4" device since the day they announced the bigger ones more than 2 years ago. Bigger isn't better.
_________________
Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
enjoyther1de
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2010
Posts: 1279
Location: chino,ca
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
|
|
| Spezialist wrote: |
| quote from time mag. "first we gotta get it legal, then the next step is to make it "required", f that. |
Then you can read the bill once its passed... 
_________________
HBB took me to BBV. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12857
Location: North Carolina
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
|
|
| enjoyther1de wrote: |
| Spezialist wrote: |
| quote from time mag. "first we gotta get it legal, then the next step is to make it "required", f that. |
Then you can read the bill once its passed... |
And how is it that the masses haven't dragged the whole lot of them out at dawn & tarred & feathered them?
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
|
|
Yeah.. who's ready.... Not me.. and Not Volvo.. .
This must be a liquid lunch Dealer Sales idea .
"Hey I have a great sales idea... let's have someone stand in front and video it stopping by itself.."
I got 20 says the driver turned it off on purpose.... Im sure I would have..
Link
Hey Jackass... after your dental visit..
I hear Top Gun Motors is hiring...
Link
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Randall
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2004
Posts: 1403
Location: Orange County, Alta California, El Norte
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! |
|
|
I'm surprised no one posted the story about the Tesla driver who died on a highway while his vehicle was in self-driving mode. Maybe 2020 is a bit too optimistic.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/nation-now/2016.../86592458/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
