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Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020!
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EverettB Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

Randall wrote:
I'm surprised no one posted the story about the Tesla driver who died on a highway while his vehicle was in self-driving mode. Maybe 2020 is a bit too optimistic.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/nation-now/2016.../86592458/


Everything I have seen about this accident sounds like it is 100% the fault of the truck driver pulling out in front of him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

Not 100%, there was the idiot using an accident avoidance system as a self driving car.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

Tesla makes it very clear that you have to keep both hands on the wheel. In fact there's a periodic check the wheel does to make sure. That guy did not. He posted several videos beforehand of him not paying attention while the car had control where he nearly crashed. He was essentially routinely cruising around daring a beta car function to kill him. Darwin.

There was a good write up on Jalopnik about it.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:00 am    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

^ yep.. pretty much ..

and......Here's ya sign..

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Just lucky so far.. no one other than a lazy inattentive look at me driver has been killed.

Word is a Tesla SUV rolled on the Pennsy Turnpike.. a few days ago after an auto driver event.

Auto driver doesn't mean .... dont pay attention..

Im sure it's all spelled out in the owners manuals that few bother to read..


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:57 am    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

No one saw this coming. Rolling Eyes
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/plat...ss-arizona
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:04 am    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

TDCTDI wrote:
No one saw this coming. Rolling Eyes
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/plat...ss-arizona


One person gets hit and the world is flipped upside down. How many pedestrian vs auto accidents have happened just since this one that nobody is reporting about? Humans kill more humans than any robot or piece of technology ever has. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

If that woman was my sister, or daughter, or mother, and I was distraught and wanted to seek restitution for my loss, who would I seek it from? Uber? The self-driving technology maker? The "emergency" driver behind the wheel but not driving?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

79SuperVert wrote:
If that woman was my sister, or daughter, or mother, and I was distraught and wanted to seek restitution for my loss, who would I seek it from? Uber? The self-driving technology maker? The "emergency" driver behind the wheel but not driving?


Shyster logic dictates you cast the net far and wide, go after everyone local, state and federal for not having safeguards in place. You go after those with deep pockets hoping for a nice settlement. They might pay up just to keep it hush hush. No matter what this technology will move forward, the newest advocates are beer,wine and spirits lobbyists which are pouring money into this venture because if you ain’t driving it’s ok to drink.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

As Cali Army Guy said, accidents will always happen, whether it is a human driver or a driverless car. I think the question which is still unanswered, and which will remain so for a long time, is where does primary responsibility lie when there is no driver actively controlling the car.

I've often said I look forward to the time that driverless cars will be ubiquitous, because that will improve my mobility significantly when I am unable to drive. But I'm not going to use a driverless car if it means I may bear some responsibility for any accidents that may occur while I'm in the car. This could be the case if I know in advance that no one is actively controlling the car yet I still agree to ride in it. If I have to sign an EULA to use a driverless car service, I highly doubt I'm going to use one.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

Someone's gotta pay. And "they" should. But who?

Since the car manufacturer has set up the driving rules embedded in the car, it will be them. (Their deep pockets won't hurt the argument for this, either!)

The obvious answer is that the carmakers will be required to carry insurance just like you and I have to if we drive. It will become part of the cost of doing business. Of course, that will get baked into the price of the car.

If the car companies who want to make billions with self-driving cars, then they have an incentive to make sure the car/software is really safe, lest it come out of their pocket through higher premiums and payouts. This puts the onus where it belongs.

The burden of proof to blame someone else will rest with the "driver" i.e., the car manufacturer. With good video recording (again, a choice of the manufacturer), they can prove negligence of others if that is the case.

There is really no other logical answer.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

I admit that I have an automatic negative reaction to driverless cars, but I know we can't fight the future. So we have to make the best of it.

The point was made that despite our horror and sadness at this latest incident, there are car-ped accidents all the time, but they don't make headlines.

A sample from the internets: "In 2015, 5,376 pedestrians were killed in traffic crashes in the United States. This averages to one crash-related pedestrian death every 1.6 hours."

So in the day after the accident, where is the coverage of the other 14 (on average) who were killed?

The only meaningful statistic would have to be something like "the number of ped-car deaths per mile driven" so that we remove the scarcity and newsworthiness of self-driving car accidents form the equation. I haven't seen hard numbers, but google and others have claimed their stats are lower than for human-driven cars. I would not trust their numbers, sort of the fox guarding the henhouse.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

Cali_Army_Guy wrote:
Humans kill more humans than any robot or piece of technology ever has.

Nice try, Skynet.

Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

We recently had a GM Sales Rep... stop by our dealer and was giving a demostantiron and drive ... of GM's new "Super Cruise".... scary yet impressive.

Auto drive, cruise, stop, crash avoidance all wrapped in one..

It's basically only designed to and will operate on specific mapped freeways..
Has cameras every freaking where..

I cringe.. and can only hope for no software glitches.. and mayhem ..

Man... I need to find a new career .... a food truck business is more appealing every day..


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
The point was made that despite our horror and sadness at this latest incident, there are car-ped accidents all the time, but they don't make headlines.


Speaking of that...
A guy jumped the curb here in town last week, hit 4 people and killed 3 of them.
The 4th one is probably going to die too.
The only reason I knew is because I look at the little local town-specific newspaper.
I'm sure this sort of thing happens all the time...
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

Jennepher wrote:
Cali_Army_Guy wrote:
Humans kill more humans than any robot or piece of technology ever has.

Nice try, Skynet.

Laughing


What came mind for me? Paul Tibbets and crew of a B29 were part of 226,000 civilian deaths at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That’s some pretty efficient killing I’d say, that technology is still awesome and worries me.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:
It's basically only designed to and will operate on specific mapped freeways..
Has cameras every freaking where..
.


This is probably where it will start... and may stay. Once all the normal real world variables are appreciated as unsolvable, the fall-back position may be to have specific routes and lanes (sort of like we do for carpools/EVs) that are "approved" for driverless operation. They will carry a charge (no pun intended) to maintain them in perfect condition, including signage and striping, and to minimize interaction with other drivers, so the software doesn't have the gamut thrown at it all the time. Maybe toll lanes, packed VERY tightly with self-driving cars. This would be a benefit to commuters on freeways, and they would pay for the convenience and relative safety.

Then they may branch out more slowly... certified boulevards, for example, where high-traffic corridors would benefit from more density possible with self-driving cars that talk to each other.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

Does the person illegally crossing the road outside of a designated crosswalk bear any responsibility in this? So I can just essentially step out in front of a car and then sue the manufacturer because they have money?

To me the PRIMARY responsibility lies with the person crossing the road. I for one am not trusting my life that a 3500 pound car is going to see me and stop regardless of how it’s being operated on the road.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

Cali_Army_Guy wrote:
Does the person illegally crossing the road outside of a designated crosswalk bear any responsibility in this? So I can just essentially step out in front of a car and then sue the manufacturer because they have money?

To me the PRIMARY responsibility lies with the person crossing the road. I for one am not trusting my life that a 3500 pound car is going to see me and stop regardless of how it’s being operated on the road.


Yes you can sue that’s is your legal right and you can either accept a settlement or take your chances with a jury. Depending on the merits of your case you can appeal to higher courts. Not a perfect system but it works what do you want to bet the driverless car lawyers pay off and press on full speed ahead? No pun intended.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

Whether or not the pedestrian is in the roadway legally, the driver has the responsibility to anticipate things that may happen. Perhaps not primary responsibility rests with the driver, but certainly there is shared responsibility with the pedestrian.

If a pedestrian is in the roadway and the driver sees them, the driver has to try to avoid them by slowing down, changing lanes, even stopping, whatever they can do to avoid hurting the person. In this case there appears to be no indication that the driverless car did that. The usual indicator of that would be skid marks.

A human driver could argue that the person suddenly jumped in front of the car, which would be a case of one's word against a dead victim. Here a self-driving car has the advantage because everything has been recorded. A self-driving car theoretically should be even more aware of what is going on simply because it doesn't get distracted or sleepy.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: Self-driving cars will be “here” by 2020! Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:
It's basically only designed to and will operate on specific mapped freeways..
Has cameras every freaking where..
.


This is probably where it will start... and may stay. Once all the normal real world variables are appreciated as unsolvable, the fall-back position may be to have specific routes and lanes (sort of like we do for carpools/EVs) that are "approved" for driverless operation. They will carry a charge (no pun intended) to maintain them in perfect condition, including signage and striping, and to minimize interaction with other drivers, so the software doesn't have the gamut thrown at it all the time. Maybe toll lanes, packed VERY tightly with self-driving cars. This would be a benefit to commuters on freeways, and they would pay for the convenience and relative safety.

Then they may branch out more slowly... certified boulevards, for example, where high-traffic corridors would benefit from more density possible with self-driving cars that talk to each other.


This makes sense. Autonomous Vehicles (AVs for me from now on) would run in 'freeway' situations, and could do so quite tightly.

Getting into these ATLs (Autonomous Traffic Lanes) would also be handled by the vehicles and roadways, but up to that point, it's on the driver until both the tech and the public have it entrenched to the point that it is considered normal. Until then, it is literally an accident waiting to happen.

Me? I love to drive, and it's gotta have three pedals, so AVs will not be a part of my future, at least as far as I can see.
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