Re-making my interior

[epowell]

I cleaned off the underside of the hole (had to remove the wheel to make it easier).

The only thing I am concerned about is the seam at the lower part of the hole... I think there is some surface rust going down into that seam... not sure what to do about this? ...perhaps spray some rust converter down there, then some sort of seam sealer?

_________________
www.edwardpowell.com

[zuhandenheit]

That looks pretty good, but if you do weld it, you will have to remove a little more of the undercoating. It will melt/burn and so may lose its adhesion to the metal, allowing water to get under it and then more rust to form.

I found the easiest way to remove it to be a chisel and hammer. A wire wheel makes too much of a mess with this stuff.

You're right to be concerned about the seam. I'd say it's likely where the rust that made that hole started.

However, your options are limited. It won't be worthwhile to open up the seam, except maybe at what appear to be the worst areas (you've got lots of seams that look about this bad -- i am sure of it!).

I've used some different approaches. You can run a phosphoric acid solution (rust converter) into the seam, but you'll have to rinse it out, and you need to make sure that whatever products you use over it will adhere to a metal that's been treated with phos acid. Some kinds of epoxy will not. If you do this, you should heat the seam with a heat gun or blow dryer to dry the moisture out, once you're done!

The 3M panel adhesive is very easy to work with, and from what I've seen is compatible with phos treated steel. I filled lots of seams with it! My approach was to remove as much rust as I could, first. It won't adhere very well to rust (nothing does, really, because the rust is not itself very well adhered to the metal, unless it's a very thin coat). But, I figured as long as the seam was dry and I had removed all the rust from both sides, the adhesive would keep out moisture.

If you remove the top layer of the undercoating, you'll be able to find places where it is cracked and allowing moisture to reach the metal underneath. (There will be visible rust stains.) It might be a good idea to do this along the length of the seam, or just right around that hole. If you find cracks you need to of course clean down to the metal.

The 3M panel adhesive doesn't do well with heat, but that rubber undercoating doesn't either. There's no way the metal there is getting hot enough to cause the adhesive to fail. But you asked about some other kind of epoxy adhesive. I wouldn't suggest you use anything other than an automotive panel bonding adhesive, if you want the repair to last. I am sure there are other commercial epoxys that would do the job, but I don't know what they are. Consumer epoxy glues suck, in my experience.

You might find that the cost of the repair is not far from the cost of a simple welder, and so maybe this is a good time to take the plunge. This is actually a good opportunity for your first welding project, since the likely problems, like warping, will be hidden anyway. You will nonetheless need to get some scrap metal to start with.

The epoxy primer you have can probably be brushed on. Because of the way epoxy cures, it's not so sensitive to coat thickness. And the brush strokes won't matter here. You could experiment with it, I think. You could also push it into your seam. Check that it is okay for phos coated metal before you do that.

[epowell]

[dobryan]

You will also need to buy an angle grinder to grind the weld down smooth. This is common. Watch some youtube instructional videos and you will get the idea.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

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[epowell]

[dobryan]

[MidwestDrifter]

Welding from above will be easier. Gravity will make the metal naturally want to pool around the weld zone.

Remember to cover any exposed skin, wear cotton/wool only (NO synthetics!) A leather apron and gloves is advised. You don't want flash burn or molten metal on yourself.

Do a bit of practice with some scrap material that is about the same thickness.

An auto darkening weld visor (with adjustable dimness) makes the job much more pleasant. Don't be tempted to lower the visor by bobbing your head. Doing this often enough can cause neck problems (or just lots of neck pain).
_________________
2004 Dodge/Mercedes Sprinter (Custom Camper)
2000 Jetta TDI
1982 Diesel Westy W/ ABA I4 hybrid (Sold)
Epic Road Tripping since 08/05/12 | http://VagariesAbound.blogspot.com/
My Current Build | http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41215

[?Waldo?]

[epowell]

Holy Smokes.... thanks guys for heads=up=safety tips! This is serious $#iT... last thing I need is to get burned! Thanks!
_________________
www.edwardpowell.com

[MidwestDrifter]

Yeah, as A.Libby says, anything directly below the weld area can have molten splatter land on it. Leather/nomex work wear is best, but a piece of thick canvas lightly whetted with water can suffice. When welding out of position in hot weather I have a piece of nomex cloth that I lightly spray with water. I used this to cover my legs/feet. Its cooler than wearing heavy gear.

The arc from the welder emits UV light. Very intense UV light at that. Any exposed skin can be "sunburned" in short order. (short periods of tack welding is okay generally though). As with all EM sources, the intensity drops off with the square of the distance. Since you are close to the arc, you (the welder) is most exposed. Pretty much any fabric will block most of the UV, so just cover up.

If you don't have a set of leather welding gloves, I suggest you get them. Most regular gloves can easily catch on fire. Even if they are leather, they may not be thick enough to protect you from splatter or extend far enough down your arms.

Generally welding is fairly safe, just trying to cover the basics, as you are new to it.
_________________
2004 Dodge/Mercedes Sprinter (Custom Camper)
2000 Jetta TDI
1982 Diesel Westy W/ ABA I4 hybrid (Sold)
Epic Road Tripping since 08/05/12 | http://VagariesAbound.blogspot.com/
My Current Build | http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41215

[phlogiston]

cool project! i'm looking forward to watching it progress.

while we are on the topic of safety, though.... one question: in this photo, are those battery wires passing through the firewall with no grommet?

[epowell]

[phlogiston]

[epowell]

[epowell]

Got the front floor area cleaned and rust treated and painted with epoxy primer. In the really thin places I laid down some fiberglass sheets and let the primer saturate it... this epoxy primer is incredible stuff - but in some areas I put it on really thick, therefore I will leave it alone for a couple of days to fully dry and harden before adding top coat.

_________________
www.edwardpowell.com

[Steve M.]

Plug those holes in the fiberglass matting so no water can get in there. That will destroy any work you've done just starting the rust all over again.

[epowell]

[zuhandenheit]

I'll be you know this, but just in case -- most of that rust is almost certainly coming from the inside. The side the it comes from will be very visibly rusty, while the other side will be clean until the holes appear.

It is much more important to treat the inside than the outside. Since you've already got your interior out, this is the time to do it. Small holes can be filled with weld, if you can get to the back-side. I have some copper plate and a few magnets that I use. (The copper came from an under-sink instant on water heater, which had a copper reservoir. It's thin, flat, and flexible, so I can shape it as necessary.) If you were to try to fill a hole with weld without a copper plate behind it, the pool will just drip through and make a bigger hole. Also, for thin, rusted metal, usually the hole gets bigger at first, as you burn through the thin metal. Eventually it stops and then you can build up from the sides and into the center. It takes some practice to get the hang of this.

The holes in your wheel-wells could be fixed this way. The other holes probably not. The side panels are rusting because moisture is settling on the inside, at the seam of the panel. There's really no way to repair these areas well without cutting the panels, because you can't get access to that seam at the bottom. I suggest that you don't spend too much time on it until you can do that. Any repair will be very temporary.

If the rust is coming from the inside (I think this is the case at the bottom of the side panels, but not in your wheel-well), you need to find where the water is coming from. I'm thinking window seals. The best thing would be to pull that side window and look for holes. At the very least, pull up the seal as much as you can and look for signs of rust underneath. It's possible even if there is no hole, that the seal has shrunk and is leaking. You could use a hose to try to find the leak.

Once you've dealt with that, rather than use the fiberglass, you can quickly and easily fil the holes with something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Fibreglass-Evercoat-632-Everglass-Reinforced/dp/B0000AYHHN

You could spray something like waxoil into the inside of the panel, but you'll have to clean it out well when you do the repair. This will slow down the rust.

[epowell]

Yes I must get in there from behind, and that is proving extremely difficult.

Water was leaking in thru unsealed holes cut for electrical and water connections.... just a tiny bit of silicone a few years ago would have made so much difference.
_________________
www.edwardpowell.com

[zuhandenheit]

My first thought was the hook-up boxes, but it's weird that the worst part would be so far back, in an area that, if I remember correctly (it's very possible that I'm not) is a little higher than the the bottom of the panel under the hook-ups. That's why I thought it might be the window. Maybe I'm picturing things incorrectly, but if you haven't already done so, you should in any case take a close look under the lips of the windows.

For what it's worth, that rust is really not bad. This wouldn't be an ideal welding task for you to learn on, but could be a lot worse. Do you remember seeing my windshield sill repairs? The geometry there was fairly complicated and it has to be just right for the windshield to fit and properly seal. The area is also extremely visible. I was still very inexperienced and pretty bad at welding, but I pulled it off over the course of a couple days. What you're looking at is way easier.

You might give some thought to the bedliner treatment (eventually). I did it in part because so many of my repairs were on those lower panels, and I knew that it would save me a lot of hassle trying to get the bodywork perfect. It's also something you could do entirely yourself, and if done right it is extremely durable (vs for instance rattle-can paint).

Since you're planning to take a trip soon, you should definitely give priority to mechanical stuff and getting the interior back together. If you were to start running out of time, you could seriously just slap some (fiberglass reinforced, ideally) body filler on those holes and come back to it later.

I don't think you should spend much time on those side panels until you're ready to cut and weld. You only need to remove the very bottom of the panel. Hopefully you can get a donor van for replacement metal, but, hell, although it would be a lot more tedious, you could even use scrap metal.