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ndralle1
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2016
Posts: 26
Location: Orange County
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 Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:12 pm Post subject: Sandrail Engine advice |
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I just bought this and can't decide if I should stick with a VW engine or a water cooled such as a 2.3l ford. I can build either but it seems the ford is much cheaper and will last longer. The VW which I've built before leaks and to make a lot of power cost a lot of money.
Also how much power do you need for a 2 seater rail like this? I'm assuming not much as it only weighs less than 100lbs.
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earthquake
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008
Posts: 3984
Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: Sandrail Engine advice |
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Mazda 20B [3 rotor] Rotary
very easy to get 400-500 hp out of one.
Casey
_________________
74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
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ndralle1
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2016
Posts: 26
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: Sandrail Engine advice |
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| Do I need 400hp? I was thinking about 100-150hp. |
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72Pstroke
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2011
Posts: 182
Location: North Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Sandrail Engine advice |
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I have been very happy with my Ecotec swap. I was originally going to use a 2.3 Ford with a turbo, but ended up going with the Ecotec.
They are a lot lighter, there is good aftermarket support for them, and the sky is the limit on horsepower.
Tim |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20379
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Sandrail Engine advice |
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Then here is Subaru.... And I will bet you are "light" on your weight estimates...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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ndralle1
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2016
Posts: 26
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Sandrail Engine advice |
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@Dale.. Haha yes I meant 1000 lbs not 100. I'm only assuming on weight based on what I've read.
I'll do some research on the ecotech. I found a 96 Mazda B2300 2.3 engine. I believe this is the same as the Ranger. Does anyone know for sure? I just need to know if the Kennedy 2.3 adapter plate will work with this engine. |
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Sandjunky
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2015
Posts: 292
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:42 am Post subject: Re: Sandrail Engine advice |
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| ndralle1 wrote: |
| Do I need 400hp? I was thinking about 100-150hp. |
Need? Who said anything about need? 
That is a sand car. You aren't going to get bored of 400HP in the dunes. You might get bored of 100-150HP.
Nice looking rail, BTW. I like the look of those mid-engine sand rails. |
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cbeck
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2014
Posts: 2495
Location: high ridge, mo
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Sandrail Engine advice |
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| Yes, that year is a rebadged ford ranger with just a few visual differences. Check out esslingers web site, pinto porn. |
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Stingray250
Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2011
Posts: 243
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Sandrail Engine advice |
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| 72Pstroke wrote: |
I have been very happy with my Ecotec swap. I was originally going to use a 2.3 Ford with a turbo, but ended up going with the Ecotec.
They are a lot lighter, there is good aftermarket support for them, and the sky is the limit on horsepower.
Tim |
Bump for the Ecotec...
Pretty much bullet proof... Unlimited parts and support... I'm actually putting a N/A LE5 2.4 VVT... 177 hp (132 kW) @ 5800 rpm 173 lb·ft (235 N·m) @ 4800 rpm... in my mid engine 79' Fiat X1/9 as we speak... Had so much fun with my VW Turbo Ecotec... Couldn't resist... Why not, right??? Motor cost me right at 600.00 shipped to my door...
Key factor here is transmission... You'd better account for the added power or BOOM!
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Sandjunky
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2015
Posts: 292
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Sandrail Engine advice |
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| Stingray250 wrote: |
| 72Pstroke wrote: |
I have been very happy with my Ecotec swap. I was originally going to use a 2.3 Ford with a turbo, but ended up going with the Ecotec.
They are a lot lighter, there is good aftermarket support for them, and the sky is the limit on horsepower.
Tim |
Bump for the Ecotec...
Pretty much bullet proof... Unlimited parts and support... I'm actually putting a N/A LE5 2.4 VVT... 177 hp (132 kW) @ 5800 rpm 173 lb·ft (235 N·m) @ 4800 rpm... in my mid engine 79' Fiat X1/9 as we speak... Had so much fun with my VW Turbo Ecotec... Couldn't resist... Why not, right??? Motor cost me right at 600.00 shipped to my door...
Key factor here is transmission... You'd better account for the added power or BOOM!
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Where did you get the motor for $600? Link? |
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Stingray250
Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2011
Posts: 243
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Sandrail Engine advice |
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LOL... I'm sorry... The engine pictured was built ground up by me for my VW after blowing one up with a bad tune... This motor has all forged internals, turbo cams, 'H" beam rods, steel crank... That engine is roughly 4k. The 600.00 engine is a stock 08' LE5 2.4 VVT engine I picked up for my X1/9... You can find it on Ebay any day of the week for five hundred bucks...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENGINE-ASSEMBLY-CHEVY-COBA...mp;vxp=mtr |
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ndralle1
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2016
Posts: 26
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: Sandrail Engine advice |
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| I went with a 2.3 liter from a 94 running ford ranger this weekend. So what do I need for a trans so I don't blow it up? I'm going to use the Kennedy adapter but for now leave the engine stock. I got the ECM and harness so hopefully it's not to terrible to wire up. I want to leave the ego on it. All for $300. |
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Mitchel
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2016
Posts: 5
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:24 pm Post subject: Re: Sandrail Engine advice |
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Just realized you answered my question in the post above  |
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ndralle1
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2016
Posts: 26
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Sandrail Engine advice |
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What trans will handle 100-150hp?
That's a nice ecotec.. |
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I Ride Sand
Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2012
Posts: 567
Location: utah
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Sandrail Engine advice |
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the biggest beef i have with the ecotech or pinto beans that you have pulleys spinning right behind your head. as in, 6 inches from your scalp you have a timing pulley with the ford. covers make them safer, but never enough. i sold my mid engine rail because i didn't want it to scalp someone i care about.
next is weight. the weight of the 2.3 ferd is just ridiculous.
ecotech has saftey concerns as well with the pulleys again...
So, go vw or subaru! personally, i would go vw at first and then swap a subie eventually.
heres my old rail. hauled some serious butt! check out the pulley locations though.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGHBl7Izbqs |
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I Ride Sand
Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2012
Posts: 567
Location: utah
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Sandrail Engine advice |
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| ndralle1 wrote: |
What trans will handle 100-150hp?
That's a nice ecotec.. |
assuming that you have an early mainshaft, hardened keys, 10 tooth spiders with matching side gears in a STOCK diff*, welded syncro hubs, HD side plate on the thrust side, and a rhino case or gusseted stock case.
*superdiffs are never machined well enough to have all four spiders in contact with the side gears. the oiling in them is quite poor, and the castings suck. a stocker with the 10 tooth spiders and matching side gears are stronger. |
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ndralle1
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2016
Posts: 26
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: Sandrail Engine advice |
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I never thought about the pulleys being right behind my head. Maybe I'll put a plate or something to protect me as I've seen my work before and it could come apart. I already got the ford so I'll go with that.
So I've read about the Ford being heavy to hang off the VW trans. Has anyone ever just made mounts for the Ford to support the extra weight using the Stock in my case Ford Ranger engine mounts? I don't think it would be to hard.
Can anyone tell me what frame this is or who makes it? |
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I Ride Sand
Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2012
Posts: 567
Location: utah
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:17 am Post subject: Re: Sandrail Engine advice |
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the transaxle is solid mounted, you will want to make custom solid mounts for the engine, the rubber mounts will be worthless.
the next issue you will have with that motor is your rear shocks. if that was set up with a vw motor, it WILL need stiffer springs.
i really have no idea what your fab skills are, if you know your stuff it will be easy to make all the crap you'll need, but if your skills are not very good, seriously consider getting a vw motor instead. saves time and money in the long run. its also a hell of a lot more fun to drive a slower buggy than work on a faster one thats never been driven. |
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77charger
Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2005
Posts: 1492
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: Sandrail Engine advice |
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Hard to not consider the ecotec.found all day long there fairly light,and make more power dollar for dollar than the vw.
If you already have the parts for a vw then go that route but if new parts are needed its a no brainer from the start.
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Bugpack 4 seater rail
2275 built by me
Auto linea alm case,82 dpr crank wedgemated by DK machine
cb 5.4 h beams,12 pound DPR f/w,Slr xv294cam,cb straight cuts,hpmx 44s,40x35 heads ported by brothers machine |
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Gary Massin-Ball
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2004
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Sandrail Engine advice |
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Nothing like a big 2.3 liter air cooled VW with a small cam and a tight trans to make fun in the sun a reality!
The biggest mistake guys make is big cam big carbs 8000 RPM dual springed monsters that you have to rev the bag out of them to make "Horsepower"!
I am a big fan of tons of displacement and don't over cam or carb and you can beat the bejesus out of it all day without breaking it.
Me and the guys have such engines and have hundreds of hours on them in the sand and no issues with reliability.
Nothing like stopping in the middle of a hill and being able to restart upwards without digging your rear wheels up to the axles. With tons of torque and a full weight flywheel and 5lb pulley you can just roll off the clutch and roll on the throttle and up you go.
Check out my engine specs in the signature here.
Gary
_________________
Warrior sand rail:
2276cc 82x94
Engle FK-41 with 1.25:1 street style rockers
40x35.5 stock cast single port heads
Single 40mm Kadron w/32vent
Equalizer 5lb pulley
Stock lifters
Stock aluminum pushrods
26mm aluminum oil pump full flow
*Poor mans rack and pinion up front*
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The Ugly Bug is on the road! |
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