Diving In. 1st Engine Rebuild

[Abouna]

[modok]

A lot of people don't do those things, and a lot of people seize a main bearing and when they take it apart to fix that they find the cam bearing is worn down to the steel. This is because the cam companies parkerize the thrust surface and that roughness doesn't play nice with the soft bearing material.

In an ideal world, you would not have to check bearing clearances, but sometimes the world lets you down. It's more of a problem on these engines because each main bearing is unique. Instead of checking one, I have to check all of them. Each brand is a little different.
-KS was best, rarely a problem, they ran loose generally
-mahle runs #1 extra loose, but #3 may be too tight.
If it feels right it might be, but I won't guarantee it!

Corrections to wilson book:
-torque for 8mm head stud nuts is 18 ft-lb
-lube bearings with bearing assembly lube or heavy engine or gear oil, rather than grease.

The paper gaskets became shredded due the difference of expansion between the iron and mag, so they are better left out.
In the old days they believed tight ring gaps were best, but today not so much.
In the 80's white grease was thought to be a good lube but actually it isn't.
These things would count as improvements!

Fitting the flywheel can be a problem, it's very hard to get 8 dowel pins to line up at the same time, but if it's been balanced that at least proves it can go on, which is good to know. The flywheel can be wobbly, limit is .008" at the friction surface. I try to keep it half that or less.

[Abouna]

Thanks Glen. I'm using Lucas assembly lube instead of grease. Read too many bad things about white grease that Wilson recommends.

I think I'm okay on pretty much everything you mentioned except the cam thrust surface. Now I'm paranoid about it. This is the best picture I could find. Looks parkerized to me. Debating on cracking the case back open. Sigh.

[Abouna]

Did some barrel mockup tonight to measure deck height. I figure out I have zero deck height. Probably from this remachined case. I was hoping for it to be just right, hey, one can hope right? Anyway, looks like I need some barrel shims. At TDC on cyl. 4 (have not checked the rest yet) I'm at exactly zero deck height on the back side of the rim, and 2 thou past the rim on the front side.

I'm using 044 heads. I have not cc'd the heads and didn't plan to. I'll be doing a little math and research on comp. ratios to figure out what I need for barrel shims/spacers.

[modok]

Could be worse! easier to use cylinder shims than it is to fix the opposite problem, which happens often with 94 cylinders.
Sorry about the cam thrust thing, but is fresh in my mind because I am currently dealing with the aftermath of that very thing........

Now I'm messing with oil pumps. Turns out the four holes on all new shadec pumps aren't perfectly aligned, and may require you to oval them one way or the other to get the drive in-line with the cam. A lot of new problems have been invented since wilson wrote the book.

[Abouna]

Exactly! I was glad not to have to send something else out to machine.

I spoke with Pat Downs, since its his cam that I bought. He said he does polish the lands, but that mine will be fine. Easy way out? Perhaps. We'll see. There are aspects of this build I know I've forgotten or been uninformed about, so I'm rolling with it. I've got to cut my teeth on something.

Just read in Wilson that its okay to machine the tops of the pistons to get deck clearance. I'm thinking the shims are a better way. I don't want to remove any extra material at this point. Or maybe it doesn't matter...

See, the thing with the oil pump I didn't even know about. I just plumb figured if it goes in the slot, turns nice, that it's good. Like I said, I've got to get my feet wet in some pool. I've already got a Type 4 waiting in the wings where I can exercise what I've learned here.

[wcfvw69]

[Abouna]

Thanks Bill.

So I may be opening a can of worms here with the next question. I been reading up on compression ratios. I think I'm going to shoot for 8:1 for this build. That's right in the middle of the range of .040-.060 that I've seen mentioned several places. I won't use ethanol, and I can get 91 and 92 octane around here. Here's some numbers. Thoughts?

[Abouna]

I got all my deck heights measured tonight. Cyl 1+2 are +.005 and 3+4 are +.002. Obviously I need shims. But I think I have another problem. The piston domes are not level with the top edge of the cylinder. On ALL pistons, the piston dome will be dead flush with the top of the cylinder at the 3oclock position, but raised past at the 9oclock position. This is actually where I measured the deck height, across the top of the cylinder with a straight edge touching 3:00 and 9:00, slipping a feeler gauge under the straight edge on the high side. I don't know what causes the piston to be cocked in the cylinder like this. Unless the bore in the small end of the rod is off, or the deck of the case is not parallel to the crank, or something else. Question is, does it matter that much? Should I have my pistons machined to match the top surface of the cylinders? Or should I have the cylinders machined to match the case? I have not put the cylinders on yet to see if the tops are dead flat to each other when torqued.

Now I'm also worried that opening up the case for 90.5 leaves almost no material around the head studs. How on earth am I supposed to seal this? There's no material there!!!! I just know this is going to leak oil. And its not just the case. There is almost no land around the cutouts for the head studs on the bottom of the jug. And these are good Mahle jugs. This is only sealing surface, right? What if I had bored out my case for even bigger cylinders? Would the case savers break into the bore?

And now that I look close at the lands on the deck, there are very small pores in the surface. Tell me this is an issue please, so I can just chuck this whole thing in the trash.

If there's one lesson I've taken away from this whole process, its that you don't assemble an engine until you've assembled the entire long block dry and measured everything. I knew early on to measure things, and I thought I had. I followed the book and video. Measured everything they said to measure. It's rather depressing that I'm discovering things now, things I thought I had researched the hell out of, that could mean sending the case back to Rimco. That basically means starting over from scratch.

The deeper I get into this, the more I wish I had spent a few more bucks and just bought a turnkey engine.

[modok]

For some reason, the case savers are recessed a ways down, which isn't the way VW did it on OE cases, rather VW put them about flush, so you cut the case .040" and it hits the tops of the case savers and no more thin spots.
You might think your case is decked .040 becasue you have zero deck, but, it hasn't hit th case savers yet???
Also I see a 45 degree chamfer on the edge of the cylinder register. It is good to break the edge but that's a little overboard.

Result....thin spots.
Well, plenty of cases bored for 94 cylinders are about that thin.....and we make it work. Hows it look by the #3 deep stud?

IMO, wire brush a little and put one glob of grey silicon on each thin spot.
"High torque grey RTV" has chalk dust to make it stronger for filling bigger gaps. Don't use it for the case split but should work well for cylinders to case.

For a more certain alternative, JB weld on case savers, let cure, and file it flat.

In either case good prep is key to make it stick! Need to get rid of that hanging chad

[Abouna]

I never knew the case savers were set too deep. And I thought the chamfer was too big too. Not because I know what I'm talking about, but because I know enough that it reduces my deck surface. I'll use the RTV.

#3 is close too, just like the others.

I got rid of the hanging chad, and checked the rest. It was a decent size piece, very hard to see with the naked eye. These digital cameras can really help spot that stuff.

Moving on, what's the deal with my fuel pump? That looks like JB Weld on there. Or is it factory sealant of some sort? I'd like to use this pump. Do folks rebuild these?

I also tried to clean up and dismantle my gen mount and oil filler/breather neck. Good gravy, the inside of this thing looks like somebody's been making Kung Pao chicken down inside there for the last decade. I have pretty much zero confidence that I clean these parts effectively. I can't believe this engine was running with all that gunk in the oil filler. Sort of comforting knowing these are tough little engines.

[wcfvw69]

That fuel pump in that photo is an Airtek, aftermarket fuel pump that most FLAPS sell. It's three major flaws are-

* The rocker pivot pin is only peened in place. It backs out of the pump, leaving you on the side of the road. Someone has JB Welded in place. They did it wrong. The pin should be able to rotate in the body. The correct fix is to source a pin with securing "C" clips from an old Pierburg fuel pump.

* Those in/out nipples on the pump love to fall out, soaking your engine in fuel and catching it on fire.

* It can produce too much fuel pressure. Stock VW carbs like 2-3 PSI. This pump can put out 5PSI. They need to be checked.

You'd be miles ahead to buy an original Pierburg pump that's been overhauled.

Here's what the good OE, German, VW pumps look like. They are great pumps with check valves, fuel filters inside and rocker pins that don't back out. I run them in all my VW's after being rebuilt with NOS diaphragms.

The Airtek pump can be altered to be a decent pump if you put the time into it. As I mentioned, buy a old Pierburg pump and replace the pivot pin. Then, pull both the inlet/outlet nipples out of it. Rough the nipples up with some 220 grit paper, smear some JB weld on the outside of the nipple and shove them back into the pump. When the JB sets up, they won't come out again. Just make sure it's not putting out too much pressure.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc

Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.

**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**

[modok]

RIght! The pin fell out so they glued it back in. That's not a good sign.
The one bolt on top is 40 horse pump or some aftermarket replacement.

The only ones really WORTH rebuilding are the OE type ones with four screws on top, but they aren't very common anymore.

I've converted to all electric pumps.... so that's how I feel about it, and it's nothing against the pumps rather I think gas these days is more prone to vapor lock. A lot of old cars have problems, even restored to just the way the factory made them, so it must be the gas.

[Abouna]

Great info guys! Guess I can toss that pump then.

Bill, can you point me to a source for a Pierburg? I'm happy to rebuild myself too. If I can rebuild an engine, how hard can a pump be?

Glen, I been debating on going electric. I'm going to run 2 40IDF Webers on this motor. I still have to research what those need for fuel pressure and such. So much to learn. I'm off to search for electric fuel pump threads...

[MURZI]

Go electric...... Use the Carter P60504...perfect for webers.
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62 vert
2276
Tim’s welded heads
45 Dells
A1 sidewinder
Fk44 cam

[wcfvw69]

I see used original, VW Pierburg pumps listed on this site all the time. They are still plentiful out there. If people understood how well they work, they'd be gobbled up and rebuilt.

I think I paid $5 bucks each for the last two used pumps I rebuilt. Neither had ever been taken apart before and other than the blown diaphragms, the insides looked new. If you ever go to a VW swap meet, everyone has buckets of them fore sale.

Now, the tricky part.. Most VW stores sell rebuild kits for them. The quality is suspect to say the least. They might of improved in the last year or two. The last kit I bought was simple junk. What I do is buy NOS rebuild kits for them. The are sold on this site or Ebay. Expect to pay $50 bucks or more for the kits. There's several good threads on this site about rebuilding the Pierburg pumps.

For me, to have a original, German made, VW logo'd Pierburg pump that will last for another 20 years for an investment of $60-80 dollars is a bargain. You pay $38 dollars for the Airtek pumps from Autozone.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc

Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.

**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**

[modok]

I ran one of these good mechanical pumps in my 70 bus and it never gave a lick of trouble, but come to think of it, in a bus the tank is right in front of the engine and it's almost gravity feed.

The carter rotary electric mentioned is about perfect for weber IDFs;3-4 psi. These aren't indestructible, but pretty darn good for he price. I've installed at least 5 and they all still work. The oldest one is like 10 years old and I had to rebuild it because it got a tiny piece of rubber stuck in the gears(this is why they come with a filter attached, you'd best leave it!), but I glued it back together and still works

[Abouna]

Electric is very tempting, but I'm not in the mood to run a bunch of electrical stuff. And I like the simplicity of the mechanical pump.

Found a Brosol NOS (thanks Bill) on the Classifieds that I'll be using.

[Abouna]

I finally got my cylinders and heads on. That was a big relief. Of course now I'm paranoid about one little piece of RTV getting in the case. I was super meticulous about application. We shall see. At this point I'm pretty pessimistic about this build, but I'm moving forward anyway.

I started getting my rockers installed today. Unfortunately the Wilson book and the Bug Me videos make NO MENTION of how to establish rocker geometry. I called CB Performance and it took three calls to get someone who could actually help me. And then it was just scratching the surface. My rocker arms came with a few instructions, but nothing remotely complete. I should have simply built a bone stock engine to get some experience. Someone here said that early on. I should have heeded that advice.

So after a few hours today reading here, I'm now totally frustrated. There are too many differing opinions, and I have no idea which one to choose. I'll probably just end up saying "screw it" and pick one at random.

If anyone is willing to point me to a solid rocker geometry method, believe me, I'm ALL EARS.

[Abouna]

I was lucky today and got in touch with my dad's old Porsche mechanic. He's incredibly hard to reach. I explained my rocker arm situation and he gave me some great advice. "You're overthinking it, just bolt it on and proceed" So I did. Got the long block buttoned up today. Also got my gen stand, oil cooler, and sump plate installed. An awesome feeling getting this far today!!