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1979 Golf Cabrio
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kamzcab86
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: 1979 Golf Cabrio Wheel Colour Reply with quote

Martin Southwell wrote:
Production: 14.06.1978 in Osnabrück, Germany


Wow... so a pre-mass production car! Very cool and perhaps one of the oldest Golf cabrios still on the road! Cool

Martin Southwell wrote:
However, this means that I don't now have the original wheel colour for matching! The wheels are in primer, and awaiting the fittment of tyres, but what paint colour do I use?


All Golf cabrio steel wheels (and many alloys) were "chrome-colored metallic", VW paint code L041.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 2:11 pm    Post subject: 1978 Golf Cabrio Reply with quote

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Hello again. Many thanks for that information. I'll investigate that colour code, and if correct, then I can still paint over the paint i've applied today, although I was planning to have the tyres fitted in two days time. It's tempting to say that I'll get another set, and I'll paint them in that colour, if correct, but these Magnesium Alloy wheels aren't that commom these days, and are usually in a very poor state when you find them. The metal is so soft. I've spent a lot of time getting these into shape, after a wheel refurb specialist gave up on them.

I think you'll agree from the above pictures, that the colour I've used today isn't bad. The paint tin just said 'Silver Wheels', so a bit of a gamble. The 1st picture shows one of the wheels in primer, bearing in mind that the wheels have all been primed in Aluminum etch primer 1st. The other two pictures show what the final finish looks like.

It is remarkable that a June 1978 Golf Cabrio is still around, and on the German Mk1 Golf Club listing, there are said to be 2 older than mine. The oldest, chassis number 5, was supplied new, with an 1100 engine, to Italy, where I think it still remains. The 2nd oldest hasn't been seen or heard of for many years, and so whether it still exists I don't know. Mine is therefore either the 2nd or 3rd oldest in existence.

To me it is still a 'new' car, as I have a number of old VW's, ranging from a 1943 Kubelwagen to a 1947 Beetle/Bug, but was keen to find the oldest Golf Cabrio I could find to add to the collection. I was lucky it seems, as the seller didn't know what he had! And no, I'm not one of those monied types. I've just been around a long time & have always looked hard for what I wanted.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 1979 Golf Cabrio Reply with quote

Too bad you weren't closer, I took two sets of those to the recycler last summer. After my 80 Rabbit was totalled, I couldn't sell them for more that scrap weight.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:17 am    Post subject: 1978 Golf Cabrio Reply with quote

Now you tell me! In fact, some tyre/wheel dealer told me a similar story a couple of months ago. The truth is that there aren't that many cars around any longer that need them. A spare set is still my aim, and I still only have 4 of these wheels anyway. These came from a 79 Scirroco I pulled apart nearly 20 years ago.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 1978 Golf Cabrio Reply with quote

That's pretty close in color.

Martin Southwell wrote:
I'll investigate that colour code, and if correct, then I can still paint over the paint i've applied today


Forget the L041... was a typo. Mad Embarassed

The alloy/steel wheels that came Chrome-colored: L091. Confirmed via VW parts catalog.

Also, the official name of your wheel is Wolfsburg.
http://www.cabby-info.com/images/Wheels/WheelGuide.pdf

Martin Southwell wrote:
It is remarkable that a June 1978 Golf Cabrio is still around, and on the German Mk1 Golf Club listing, there are said to be 2 older than mine. The oldest, chassis number 5, was supplied new, with an 1100 engine, to Italy, where I think it still remains. The 2nd oldest hasn't been seen or heard of for many years, and so whether it still exists I don't know. Mine is therefore either the 2nd or 3rd oldest in existence.


Wow... very cool! Cool
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:12 pm    Post subject: 1978 Golf Cabrio Reply with quote

Again, many thanks for the comments & observations. Nice to have feedback. Your web-site has some interesting information I must say. I hadn't seen the wheel section before.

What still puzzles me, is that in the e-mail from VW, they say that the car was originlly fitted with 5J wheels, whilst these 'Wolfsburg' wheels are 5.5J. Either there has been a typo in the information supplied, or the car didn't come with these wheels. Maybe as it wasn't a production car, maybe they tried some other style of wheel, but decided during production, to revert to what was available?

There are a couple of features on the car, which I suspect may be those of the early cars, and I will take pictures next week to show what I'm talking about. One is that the rear view mirror, which is rooted in a rectangular hole in the metal frame, the small area above the interior light, between the sun visors. After all of these years, it wobbles about, and I need to do something to steady it. Everything else I have seen has the mirror attached to the windscreen.

The 2nd item is the push button on the boot/trunk lid, into which the key fits. Normally this is completely round, but on this car, there are 4 long slots around the perimeter of the button itself. Just right for letting the water in, and may explain the rust at the bottom of the boot/trunk lid.

Any views widely welcomed!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:22 pm    Post subject: 1978 Golf Cabrio Reply with quote

Just noticed that on your web-site, you have the 'Wolfsburg' wheels as 5J width, but mine say 5.5J on them. Is this a typo, or did they come in two sizes?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 1978 Golf Cabrio Reply with quote

Martin Southwell wrote:
Just noticed that on your web-site, you have the 'Wolfsburg' wheels as 5J width, but mine say 5.5J on them. Is this a typo, or did they come in two sizes?


Jeeze... total mistake on my part.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Yes, the Wolfsburg is indeed 5.5; I'll get that document changed as soon as I can.

Martin Southwell wrote:
One is that the rear view mirror, which is rooted in a rectangular hole in the metal frame, the small area above the interior light, between the sun visors. After all of these years, it wobbles about, and I need to do something to steady it. Everything else I have seen has the mirror attached to the windscreen.


Remember, your car is a pre-mass production model so it's going to have some oddities as the cars were still in a testing-like stage in '78.

I'm guessing that your mirror is probably a run-over from the Beetle cabrios. During this test phase, they may have determined that the Beetle version wasn't going to cut it and, thus, moved it to the windshield/screen on the Golfs.

Martin Southwell wrote:
The 2nd item is the push button on the boot/trunk lid, into which the key fits. Normally this is completely round, but on this car, there are 4 long slots around the perimeter of the button itself. Just right for letting the water in, and may explain the rust at the bottom of the boot/trunk lid.


Weird. Never heard or seen anything like you describe. Think
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:11 pm    Post subject: Differences From Production Golf Cabrios Reply with quote

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At last, I've got around to posting some more pictures! The above picture shows the lockable push button for the rear luggage/trunk area, which as you can see, is different from the usual completely round item on Cabrios. Has anybody else seen a similar item anywhere? The same key operates this lock, the two doors, & the ignition, and so is not a later addition.


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These pictures show how the rear view mirror is attached. Not the usual window mounted item. Again, has anybody seen this before?

The other thing I find odd, is that the car has a space saver wheel well, which I read somewhere is correct. How come then that the Jan 1983 Golf Cabrio I bought recently, has the deep version. You would imagine that it would be the other way around. The 78 car doesn't appear to have had any metalwork done to it, as it all looks factory, and I know that the 83 car is original.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 1979 Golf Cabrio Reply with quote

those wheels in 13x5.5 are way more rair then the 13x5 versions.. usa got 80-81 as a aluminum option for the jetta.. but europe used them on the 1.6 heron gti/rocco versions.. the face is almost flat vs a 5.0 version.. imo way nice look
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 1979 Golf Cabrio Reply with quote

That would make sense, as I got these 5.5J wheels from a 1979/80 Scirocco I scrapped back in the mid 1990's here in the UK.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: 1979 Golf Cabrio Reply with quote

For those of you who are wondering what ever happened to the early Golf Cabrio, especially now that we are in 2017, I'm just letting you know that it's still around, and sporting its refurbished wheels & tyres, which look very nice, and have purchased from Germany, an original quality & style roof cover, in the cars original tan colour. What I'm still looking for a left hand drive, Series 1 dash, to eventually put in the car, but most seemed to be heavily cracked. Anyone know where I can find one?

As it's winter here in the UK, with long cold night, and short days, the car is sitting in a barn, waiting for the warmer weather to arrive before any more progres is made on it.

In the UK, vehicles become road tax exempt once they are 40 years old, and so I might put off registering it here until it reaches that age, which is only 18 months away anyway. I would imagine that I need to get the Birth Certificate from VW to prove to the licencing people that the car was built in June 1978, and doubt that they would accept the e-mail from VW Corporate History as proof.

As the car was 1st registered in Germany, early Summer 1979, then I'm sure they will try & say that 2019 is when it will qualify for the 40 year exemption. How long does it take these days to obtain the Birth Certificate?

When I applied for one on another car a couple of years ago, after 4 months of hearing nothing, I wrote to the CEO at the time, Martin Winterkorn, and I received the certificate the week after! Even then it was normally something silly like 6/8 months, and so who knows what it is these days?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:46 am    Post subject: Re: 1979 Golf Cabrio Reply with quote

Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 3:41 am    Post subject: 1978 Golf Cabrio Reply with quote

Just an update to say that the car in now registered in the UK.

Last edited by Martin Southwell on Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 11:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Differences From Production Golf Cabrios Reply with quote

Martin Southwell wrote:
These pictures show how the rear view mirror is attached. Not the usual window mounted item. Again, has anybody seen this before?


Except, there is an outline on the glass where a windscreen-mounted mirror once was. Eh?

As for the wheels, they did indeed come in both sizes (hence the two part numbers, which I've now clarified in the Wheel Guide). According to the 1980 brochure I have, the GLS came standard with 5Jx13; the GLI came with 5.5Jx13.

Martin Southwell wrote:
The other thing I find odd, is that the car has a space saver wheel well, which I read somewhere is correct.


That's actually not correct. The 1979-1984 Cabriolets came with full-size spares and 40 liter fuel tanks. From 1984.5 onward, they used space-savers and 52 liter fuel tanks.

If this '79 does, in fact, have a space-saver wheel well and larger capacity fuel tank, I would look really, really closely at it. Considering it's been painted from original (VW says Indiana Red), the interior has been swapped out (original was code CV, a tan cloth/vinyl with brown dash), and the fact that the build date does not match the riveted PKN plate, work has obviously been done to it at some point (or multiple points) in its 40-year life.

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Regardless, congrats on getting it registered. Looking forward to seeing it back out on the road! Cool
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 12:35 am    Post subject: Re: 1979 Golf Cabrio Reply with quote

Thanks for your further thoughts, information & views. From what I can work out, it spent the 1st 20 years of its life in Germany, and the last 19 in Holland. To me it would seem that it was 'updated' when it arrived in Holland, no doubt to create more value for resale at the time, and the badge of the sizeable company (still running) that did this work is still on the boot lid. I'll try and contact them to see if they have any record of the car. A long shot, but worth a try. If they have grafted in a later spare wheel well, then the job has been done extremely well. I did read somewhere (?) that space saver wheels were fitted from the start, hence the comment made previously.

As you say, the fuel tank, which still has to be removed, looks to be a different shape, even to the Jan 83 Cabrio I have, and seems pretty small compared with later cars, and so 40 litres is a distinct possibility. I'll take photos when out, so people can see what they think.
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 1979 Golf Cabrio Reply with quote

Just remembered that I took some pictures of the underside of the car, especially the fuel tank, when I 1st got it last year, and here they are. You see that the fuel tank is nothing like I've seen before, with the tank held in place by bolts and washers, the same as on a Beetle. Is this the fabled 40 litre tank?

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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 1:33 am    Post subject: Re: 1979 Golf Cabrio Reply with quote

If you look at the 1st & 3rd pictures above, you'll clearly be able to see the spare wheel well, and can see from its condition, that it's clearly been in situ for a very long time. In fact I'm sure it's been there from the start i.e. June 1978. There is nothing to indicate that it has been changed at any time, even if the car has been resprayed, and had a newer interior fitted in the interim, as many Golf Cabrios have had done over the years. It's definitely not a cut and shut car!

It's possible that as a pre production car, this shallow spare wheel well is what VW/Karmann had intended for the Mk1 Cabrio from the start, but didn't get around to putting them into the cars, as you say, until half way through the 1984, maybe once stocks of the older, deep spare wheel well panels were used up, or when the shallow type finally became available from VW? When were these shallow types 1st fitted on the Golf saloon?
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 2:18 am    Post subject: Re: 1979 Golf Cabrio Reply with quote

its not only the tank... its the exhaust hangers too... the pre 84.5 muffler installed on the post 84.5 hangers will never be correct... and i doubt vw would do that on a proto.. the one pic shows the hanger.. a post 84.5 system will fit/hang better then the style you have.. a 16v rocco one will fit right in.. very hard to do on a pre 84.5

if i had to guess... its been clipped at one point.. the old front with later rear... like car was hit hard in the rear... the vin # would be on the front shock tower in 79... so if the 84.5 car was hit hard up front.. the 79 front grafted on would in theory turn it to a 79...

does it still have a door jam sticker with vin #??

that fuel tank has a in tank fuel pump feeding the under car pump... it will fail causing issues.. .a proper 79 would lack this... also the 84.5+ tanks crack at the seam on the side where yours looks to leak/have old gas stain

does it have the round gauge dash like the steering wheel photos have?? if not... does it have a rain tray still? if it has a rain tray... does it have a vin #?? convertables much like caddy/pickups had rot issues pre 83 due to the reinforcement panels used on the inner fenders... they went to fender liners mid year 83 that pretty much eliminated this rot... but could be a reason for a 79 style strut tower in a later car.. from your pics id say different dash in your car... but just trying to confirm... if those pics i think are of yours... it also has a 82+ core support/rad that uses pins in the bottom vs 2 rubber mounts with a stud bonded to each side of the rubber..

but to just change the rear floor for later tank/exhaust.. exceeds value of the car... even in 85... cost far less to clip it...

one last thing.. looking at your shock tower vin # pic... is the one 0 off vs the rest?? is there a vw logo stamped at one end of the number?? looks funky to me in all honesty.. i really wonder if the rain tray has any numbers on it..

rain tray vin #s have x or z in spots... those are factory as till its built did not know the option the x or z would be.. a good 4-6 of the total digits are like that starting in 81.. if rain tray removed.. there is no other stamped in steel # only stickers and a dash tag... and IMO with my knowledge.. to inspect the car to verify its a 79.. id fail it as the shock tower # looks wonkie.. and too many post 82 parts... before you kick a bee hive to get it tax exempt.. imo.. need to figure out if it was a stolen car with new vin # added.. which is my true thought to just pull the bandaid off... the hassle of them taking your car away trying to get it exempt would be a very sad day to find out.. where as of now it sucks to think it.. but confirming it would be worse as i doubt you stole it.. else why brag.. hint hint.. stop now while ahead... cause was nice idea... just failed that your in the situation... now having possibly the 3rd oldest one gets ya arrested on auto theft/receiving stolen property... back in the mid 80s they were stolen very often as easy to get in vs hardtop.. and gti options for boy racers... think a nice gti optioned post 85 convertable with a basic 79 vin # would save in insurance back in the mid 80s too... so.. sad thoughts..

what kind of fuses does it have? the colored see thru blade style or ceramic?? ceramic was used to 82.. then ce1 starts in 83 with the blade fuses... ive swapped ce2 88-99.5 into a 81... so no real biggy.. but helps try to figure out what you have... ceramic fuses = front clip grafted to later rear as no one would down grade to them
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: 1979 Golf Cabrio Reply with quote

Martin Southwell wrote:
If you look at the 1st & 3rd pictures above, you'll clearly be able to see the spare wheel well, and can see from its condition, that it's clearly been in situ for a very long time.


I don't doubt it's been there from day 1; given the evidence presented thus far, however, I do doubt it's from June '78. Confused

That appears to be a 52 liter fuel tank (that has been leaking).

According to the parts catalog, the boot/trunk floor of '79-'84 convertibles use a welded-in spare tire well. In fact, both the floor and the tire well are Golf I hard-top components (171- part numbers). From '84.5 onward, the spare tire well was a molded part of the floor and is a convertible-specific component (155- part number).

FWIW, here is what a 1979-1984 convertible should look like underneath:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Martin Southwell wrote:
When were these shallow types 1st fitted on the Golf saloon?


AFAIK, it began with the Golf II production.

crsmp5 wrote:
if i had to guess... its been clipped at one point.. the old front with later rear...


^Exactly what I was alluding to: a 1979 front with unknown radiator support grafted onto an '84.5+ rear. Three cars joined together.

As for the VIN stamp, doesn't look out of place to me; I've seen a few shock tower VINs like that.

It is a good point about the fuses. If this car has a CE1 panel, I'd put money on it being a blended car. Nothing wrong with that, but it would mean it's not a genuine (whole) '79. Sad
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