My 412 these days..

[ClassicCamper]

Thanks for the info
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

The front wheel bearing inner seals are at Rockauto......they have just about every brand made. Tbe prices range from 35 cents to about $2.80 each for Timken brand. I bought about 8 of them in the fall for 50 cents each new in bags...SABO brand....top notch.

Nice work! Ray

[ClassicCamper]

[ClassicCamper]

So, here is the latest on the 412: the oil leak should be cleared up by this weekend the latest. If cause was catastrophic, like the T4 case syndrome,I'd have to mothball the car for a while due to funds.

After some very constructive dialogue on the forum here, I've decided to go with Maaco. Their quality of work was very encouraging, they actually wanted to do the project, and the pricing was flexible. However, I am still struggling with their pricing tiers. The gentleman basically advised me to strip the car down to save some $ which works great for me. Further, he recommended no media blasting, as he was pretty sure that doing so would open 'pandora's box', meaning exposing older body work.

My pain point with Maaco is they give you a baseline price for the paint and then have you bring the car down to identify what incremental costs will be; for example, rust around windows, ding removal, rust areas under trim, etc..My main concern is getting a baseline quote for the car and then getting slammed with incremental costs listed above. Once I have the car stripped of trim, windows removed, etc., I'm at the mercy of the paint shop. I cant just say no thanks, that's too much as the car is already towed to the location and devoid of irs windows/trim etc.. In addition, I want to have this baby painted with a higher gloss. I'll keep everyone posted and thanks for your help and feedback. -Ron
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1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

Just bear in mind....the original paint was VERY high gloss. It was clear coated metallic.
The first easier method of getting a higher gloss than factory is to wait for the base coat color to cure...then wet sand and buff to a very high gloss...strip oils...and spray clearcoat. Then wet sand again and polish the clearcoat to a high gloss.


The factory did not have the option of color sanding in between the clear coat.

The next option is adding something like pearl base or clear to get better paint depth.
Ray

[ClassicCamper]

Well, after taking a brief breather and feeling defeated, I'm back. The big oil leak I have has been frustrating. However, I decided to get back on the horse and lick my wounds.

This is what ai did this evening:

- changed oil
- installed new strainer and gasket
- took inspection port circular plate off - this looked to be sealed well with a large rubber o-ring and copper wasers
- fixed connecto problem

Most of the leak seemed to originate from the small round plate. I was hoping that the fault would be there. When I removed it, there were no loose bolts or or a defective o-ring. Only thing I did see was that the copper crush washer was falling apart;some of the washer was also stuck in the middle of the round plate. I installed proper crush washers and hoping this was the culprit.

Finally, I secured the oil filter boot in the engine. What a PITA! I gave up and ended up using a nose clamp.

Here is what it looked like after the first test drive:

Typically, drip ip will start a few hours after a trip.

Finally a few quick questions:

1) After first start in a few months, engine fired right up. Second start, no fuel pump. Relay was clicking, but pump never kicked on. I went under and tapped the pump with a hammer; fuel pump clicked on.

2) Any tips/suggestions how to replace that accordian-type bellows that connects fan to outside grills? Having a tough time with this.

Feels good to be back in the saddle again
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

I can't tell from your pictures.....is it still leaking or not?

You are on the right track. The two bolt plate...sometime called the "taco-plate" because from the inside it looks a bit like a taco.....is actually a port for inserting a factory designed crankcase heater.

It usually leaks primarily from the two bolt holes because either the plate is warped and the bolts don't pull it down all the way.....or....the area under the crush washers is rough and has paint chipped away.

In rare occasions when I just can't get one to seal......I strip and repaint the outside of the plate....or just remove all the paint...which I dont like to do because it rusts. And/or.....you can drain the oil , cleaner the inner bolting surfaces really clean as well as the plate.....and put a thin localized layer of oul proof RTV like Ultra black......let it tack up a little. ..then bolt the plate on...until it just comes in contact and wait a full 8 hours before finishing tightening the bolts and filling with oil.

If its leaking from the sump strainer plate....just sweating from the gaskets... ...the biggest problem I have found is that as you are tightening the bolt....the plate turns and shuffles the gaskets a bit getting oil between then or squeezing oil out.....and with a ome unevenness in the aluminum strainer......and very low torque......you can get some sweating under the gaskets when everything expands.

The best fix for this.....and this is the only way I do this for a long time........is to take a fresh gasket set.....clean the strainer scrupulously. ....apply a thin, even layer of Ultra copper or ultrablack to one side of each gasket ONLY....and apply the gaskets to the top and bottom of the strainer.....RTV side to the strainer.....center the gaskets up......insert the strainer....again.....only tighten the center nut enough to bring the whole stack together with even and level contact. You don't want to squeeze the RTV out even though there should be very little RTV in the stack.

Wait a full 8 hours before taking the strainer back out.....trimming away any excess rtv on the outside edge. Then oil the gasket faces.....insert the strainer.....properly tighten the nut, refill with oil.

The stops all of the leaks. Also....just like the taco plate....make sure the area under the center crush washer is smooth, flat and clean.

Also....this typically preserves leak free gasket life for an easy 50k miles with strainer cleanings at each oil change. Ray

[ClassicCamper]

[raygreenwood]

[ClassicCamper]

A bit of rough news for me today, bummed out. The good news is that (thanks to Ray) the small round plate leak is fixed. Tne rough news is that I think that the leak may be related to the pulley seal. (rear seal). Most likely its the little o-ring or the larger seal. The change of weather took a hard toll on the car. All the seals contracted, even on the windows. Southern CA is totally different than the weather of the east coast of the NJ shore. Very cool winters, beautiful summers.

I truly love this car, but with my back condition, I'm pretty sure its game over. I'm unable to pull the engine again since my back injury recurred. Unless there is a miracle and I can somehow do this witn car on ramps and engine in, I'm SOL. I can only imagine what a VW shop would cost. Plus, I put the a/c compressor in there to complicate the pulley removal. Oil in there is 15W 40. It is a super-slow leak, but not going to let it get worse. Car is a piece of vw history. I'll bet theres less than 15 of these faithfully running the highways of the USA! Thought I got all the heavy stuff done prior to my injury. Sad news. Dumb move on my part. Should have replaced that seal!

Here's some pics:

I'm going to the VW swap meet in Englishtown, NJ this weekend regardless as I committed to picking up a new T4 windshield, and I'm not going to stand the guy up. If any of the T4 community needs any specific parts, PM me and I'll keep my eyes peeled.

Thanks for everyones help getting my car this far. I had a true blast. If there are any suggestions to do this slowly.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

In the morning ai will lay this out. You cn do thw without removing the engine.....especially jf you are not in a hurry.

It roughly entails the better part of what I listed for working on the bellows.....remove belts.....lower,rear of engine.....remove fan....pull hub and change seal.

Also.....the amount of 411/412 roving the highways. .....back about 15+ years ago from digging and looking around.....I put the number all told at an estimated 200 cars of type 4 still running an registered. ...long story....but over the years....some disappear. ..get sold off and wrecked and scrapped....but over the past 7 years there has been a slow steady, small trickle of cars appearing out of barns and backyards.

I would guess the Pacific NW and California may have 40-50 running around. I would put the rest between 3-5 per state for the rest of the US in various condition. Some states I can bet have none....and others have several type 4s.

The biggest killer of type 4s.....and what I CONSTANTLY rant about......is too many owners who gleefully acquire one off CL or Ebay.....with the best enthusiasm and great happiness and best intentions....and just cannot stop the itch to drive it, customize it or get it to the next show......as soon as possible......assuming that it cannot be much different than their last ACVW (beetle, thing, type 3 or bus). ......and the heartbreak comes from too many parts destroyed by driving it before the basics are done.....and too many costly or unavailable parts causes the car which has little resale value to be sold for parts or scrapped when they can't afford to continue.

You are actually doing a great job. I would say your car is pretty stable. Dont worry for a while. Ray

[ClassicCamper]

Wow. Thanks for the nice gesture. I'll try my hardest and wait for your feedback. Does that pulley holder pop off the crank, or require a puller? Hmm, if that is the case, I'll recruit a friend to see if its possible.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

OK.....this is going off of memory so there may or may not be a few items that get missed.

The object is to not have to remove the engine completely or remove the cooling manifold. It will take a bit of hand reaching and some tight spots.

Disconnect the battery NOW.

1. Un-clamp your dipstick boot

2. Loosen alternator and remove belt.

3. If you have AC, slip the belt off from the compressor end for now.

4. Unbolt the bellows from the cooling manifold with the plastic bell still
attached to the bellows.

5. Take the heater blower trunking hoses out of the way

6. Remove the three pieces of sheet metal...right center and left.

7. Jack the car up to give yourself a little height and put some angle on the CV shafts...maybe 6-8" at most.

8.put a jack under the engine just rearward of the engine to transmission joint. You want to support both the engine and the transmission load.

9. Remove the two horizontal 8mm bolts at each end of the rear hanger bar. Make sure that the upper nut on the outboard vertical stud going through the hanger bar at each end is made up tight against the bar. This is the upper adjustment limit.

10. Put a slight load under the engine with the jack.

Note: This next part can be done one of two ways. Both require you to slide underneath the car. The first one is the easiest that most understand...but you will hate because it requires leaning and bending over and wrenches on the back side of the firewall sheet metal and...its a pain. But remove the two bolts in the center of the bushing on each side and you can now lower the rear of the engine to access the fan bolts.

I like the second method better.

11. Loosening the mid engine support hanger bushings

Method #1: 17mm wrench on the back side and 17mm socket on the front with a ratchet. Reaching around both sides past the engine compartment seal that you have to move out of the way....and its pretty self explanatory.

Method #2: Jack under engine...car on jack stands up maybe 6"...wheels still just barely touching the ground.

You need safety glasses on, a decent light...and either a 17mm or 19mm socket, breaker bar and ratchet and several ratchet extension bars coupled together to equal about 24" to 36".

laying on your back....look upward on each side of the engine at the joint where it joins the transmission bell housing case....you will see the bushings with their 17mm bolt heads sticking out. On each side of each 4" wide bushing you will see a 13mm bolt head for an 8mm x 1.25 bolt that attaches the bushing bracket to a steel cross-member.

You have two options here: If you remove these two vertical bolts on each side of each of the hanger bushings....you are done. The bushings will still be nicely connected to the engine and transmission but loose from the chassis which will allow you to continue to lower the engine.

But...between these two bolts and sandwiched between the bushing brackets and that steel cross member are several shims on each side of the car.

Remove the shims and keep them separate for each side of the car. They are a very important adjustment. They are hook style shims and when you go to re-install them.... you will jack the engine up slowly until about 1/4" gap is left between the tops of the bushings and hanger bar....install the two 8mm bolts loosely and then slide the shim sets in from the side....then tighten the bolts lifting the whole package up and sandwiching the shims back where they were.

Sometimes its a little bit of twiddling to get the shims in...and you end up dropping them on your head several times and you may need to use a long phillips screwdriver to align one or more of the 8mm bolt holes.

I like this method....but the inner side 8mm vertical bolt is sometimes hard to reach. You may need a universal joint or a ratcheting 13mm wrench. Can't remember offhand.

Option #2: Outboard of these hanger bushing vertical bolts at each end of the hanger bar...is a large bolt head. Either 17mm or 19mm. You can take both of these bolts out and the entire hanger bar with bushings and shims still attached comes away from the chassis.

Re-installing sometimes requires a little aligning to get the bolts back in but this is simplest.

12. Remove the lower nut on the outboard vertical stud at each end of the rear hanger bar.

The engine is now free to be jacked downward slowly at the rear.

IMPORTANT ....BEAR IN MIND: The only thing now holding the engine up and in the car....is the rear tailcone bushing, the CV shafts and everything attached to the drivetrain.

As you lower the rear of the engine...keep occasionally pushing the engine package toward the front of the car to keep the rear transmission donut engaged in the rear cross-member so the engine does not fall out.

13. Lower the engine enough to remove the three triple square fan bolts.

14. You should be able to tilt and remove the fan.

15. Remove the center bolt on the fan hub. Tap it a bit with a rubber mallet. If it does not come loose.....use a three arm puller but be careful not to bend the ears on the hug. Use a combination of tapping/vibration, tension on the puller and maybe a little heat and penetrating oil.

16. with the hub off....use a thin nail puller or angle bar to carefully pry out the seal.

17. Clean seal recess, install new o-ring...and if you must use something...use a little Indian head gasket sealer around the outside edge of the top of the seal as both a lubricant and sealer as you drive it in squarely.

18. Use a very small amount of anti-seize compound on the hub taper....and wipe it almost completely away....just a faint gold or silver coloring left.

19. Re-install is the reverse.

You may be able to install most of the sheet metal before you start putting the engine back in.

Ray

[ClassicCamper]

Awesome Ray. I'm having my posse compare your notes to the car to see if they can help me out. I imagine I need to disconnect the accel cable and some misc wires. I'll keep you posted if this is going to happen. Thanks for taking the time out to write the instructions.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

[ClassicCamper]

Thanks Ray, my pit crew reviewed your instructions carefully. They are certainly eager to help. I'm apprehensive, because I'm sidelined and im in love with this car. One thing that was mentioned....can this be done with car on rear ramps? Would give much more space to get floor jacks in there plus, helps maneuverability.
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1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

Yes.....ramps will do just fine. Just remember to put stacks of wood that you can reduce in height as the engine is jacked down.....under each exchanger to keep the motor from tipping,sideways. Ray

[ClassicCamper]

My T4 friends: It looks like the VW gods were looking down on me. I took it for a long drive today as I was bummed out engine needs to be lowered and the seal was shot.

I touched the rear engine seal and it was like a sponge filled with oil. Hot oil went all over the muffler and my face. Hey, it did hurt, but didnt seem to be coming from the rear seal.

Take a look:

I'm pretty sure that is the culprit. Also, I wonder if it had anything to do with engine vacuum. A large shout out to Curtis on the west coast for this:

So, I'm going to try this and see if that fixes things. Ray, thanks for your engine drop instructions. Let's see how this works. - Ron
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[ClassicCamper]

I'm now pretty stoked, so brought her out for a new coat:

Does anyone have the correct paint color/code? I'll check the indicies here on the Samba. I think it's marathon blue.

I don't like the pinstripe that goes around the mid section of car; I'm having that removed. I want the aluminum trim and believe it can be done with (3) Type 3 molding kits. I'd prefer not to take that route. Any suggestions where I can look for T4 molding? The WTB section of The Samba is coming up dry. - Ron

P.S. Thanks again Curtis for saving my arse with the oil filler boot. You rock.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

Oh yes....that will be an engine vacuum issue. Big fuel mixture tuning issue.

Also along with that...the gasket/o-ring around the dip stick at the top.

Anything with D-jet that allows outside air into the crankcase is a direct vacuum leak that affects the MPS. The intake manifold will pull air through that leaking boot up through the oil chimney and through the 12mm hose at the PCV valve to the plenum.

I forget about those two parts as potential leaks when listing the vacuum leak points to check for people.....because its been so long since I actually owned a wagon.
And...even when I owned a wagon...and I have had at least two from memory....I got rid of that potential issue quick. It caused vacuum and oil leakage issues for me on my first one. The boot was no easier to find in the early to mid 90's than it is now...in fact its easier to find now because of the internet.

When I changed engines....I simply went to the flat oil chimney that he wagon has....on my sedan 412 engine. I used the top mounted dipstick. A slight bend in the dipstick loop handle and it fit fine under the hood.

I was more worried bout reliability than originality...as I was driving the car an average of 750+ miles per week. Ray