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mpl
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2015
Posts: 97
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 Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond |
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| Franagon wrote: |
| Thanks a lot! Yeh, I just read through it. Looks amazingly simple. I believe I got caught up on the tach wire and just got frustrated. I don't believe I see a blue wire or green wire, so I need to locate those. |
Franagon, does this help? I just finished writing up how I connected my tachometer signal converter and the tachometer.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8109832#8109832 |
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Franagon
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2009
Posts: 227
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond |
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Yep! Thanks! Just need to find the wires! 
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84 Westy Wolfsburg Manual - RG6 Bostig |
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Reck
Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2015
Posts: 73
Location: Santa Fe, NM
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Franagon, your timing belt advice |
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| Franagon wrote: |
| I would say do it... Oh one tip that may be helpful! If at all possible do not loosen the cam gears on the cams. A lot of timing belt forums say to do this, but I could not imagine that. If it the cams were right before with respect to the cams and teeth on the cam sprockets, it should be correct. I would try a couple rounds of getting the belt right with respect to the crank and both cams than to loosen those. Also, you will need a simple timing kit that you can get on eBay, Amazon, pretty much anywhere... |
Thanks for this advice. I'd like to ask a follow-up.
Skipping ahead a bit since I'm on SK-W, I followed the Bostig manual advice to check my cam timing. I picked up the timing kit you refer to and that Bostig specifies (the bar and crank pin). Initially I found the bar would not slide into the cam slots. So, I loosened the cams on their gears as Bostig advises. The torque was high, as Bostig warns. I got the slots lined up and after a couple tries I got the gears torqued down again, with red Loctite like Bostig says.
Now, in looking into replacing my timing belt, I see the Gates instructions say to loosen up those cam gears again. I don't want to do that, obviously.
My question: Do I understand you to say that you recommend replacing the belt without loosening the top cam gears? That would be music to my ears, since I'm worried about that red Loctite. Thanks for your time. |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond |
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Heat the head of the fastener and the threadlocker will liquefy and act as a lubricant on removal.
Clean it all off the threads and apply fresh when torquing it all back together. |
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Reck
Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2015
Posts: 73
Location: Santa Fe, NM
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond |
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Thanks for this mpl, and many belated thanks for your detailed response to my earlier trans/clutch lever query. I got busy at work and disappeared for a while. Great to see that little video of your white '84 Westy (exactly what I have) purring along. Motivational. But I will have to get used to 4000 rpm as being where life starts. It used to be where the fun started to fade. |
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Reck
Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2015
Posts: 73
Location: Santa Fe, NM
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond |
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| insyncro wrote: |
Heat the head of the fastener and the threadlocker will liquefy and act as a lubricant on removal.
Clean it all off the threads and apply fresh when torquing it all back together. |
Okay, thanks insyncro. I've never been entirely clear if there was an exit strategy with red Loctite. |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond |
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| Reck wrote: |
| insyncro wrote: |
Heat the head of the fastener and the threadlocker will liquefy and act as a lubricant on removal.
Clean it all off the threads and apply fresh when torquing it all back together. |
Okay, thanks insyncro. I've never been entirely clear if there was an exit strategy with red Loctite. |
RED stands for heat on removal.
I have shown in build threads that the use of a red paint pen is advised on the heads of the fasteners to show that red has been used and that heat is needed for removal.
Pretty much industry standard practice. |
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Franagon
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2009
Posts: 227
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond |
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I may be too late to this, but you should be able to keep your cam sprockets where they are. I gave someone else the timing instructions I somehow got that were out of a Ford manual. When I found those, I had someone else in the Focus forums state a clever way to change the belt. Basically, they marked the belt with corresponding marks on both cam sprockets and crank sprocket. Then they removed the old belt, transferred the marks to the new belt and reinstalled in the same position as the old one was. Of course you need to check to make sure everything lands right, but that should be a good starting point. I thought for sure I would mess up a cam or something trying to get that cam bolt off. I think it is a T60 Torx bit as well, which I did not have handy. I am glad mine worked out (well, I haven't started it yet) without unbolting the cam sprockets. I turned mine about 10 or more revolutions and it was dead on every 2, so I considered that good. Good luck! Hope this helps.
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Franagon
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2009
Posts: 227
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond |
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Hey gang, went out and looked again at my wiring into the black box on the firewall. One main question:
Is the green wire supposed to be in the round connector harness?
I do NOT have a green wire anywhere. I have a green w/white stripe and it looks like I have a green with some darker stripes on it. At least one of those continues on to the tail lights. The other one ends, which does not make sense to me. It would have to go to something on the engine for the tach signal, right?
I promise to make a diagram this week that I will post here, and also get to Bostig, what I have coming into my black distribution box in the back. The '84 section in the Bently does not show this. I think the '85 shows it as green (as does '86 and up), but I sure do not have a green wire coming back there.
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Franagon
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2009
Posts: 227
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:32 am Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond |
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=553567&highlight=tach+wire
I found this to be pretty interesting. I do recall some red/black wires back there, but thought they went to something else, due to them being a larger gauge of wire. May be on the trail though. FYI.
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mpl
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2015
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond |
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| Franagon wrote: |
| Hey gang, went out and looked again at my wiring into the black box on the firewall. One main question: Is the green wire supposed to be in the round connector harness? I do NOT have a green wire anywhere. |
Franagon, did your '84 Westy come with a stock tachometer? Mine did not. If yours also did not, then there is no green tachometer wire in the stock VW wiring; you'll need to run new wire from the engine bay to the Bostig ECU and again to the dash. |
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Franagon
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2009
Posts: 227
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:59 am Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond |
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Yes, mine has a Vanagon tach in it, and it worked before, so I am thinking that it is the red/black wires that come back into the black distribution box, as the link to the other post shows some conversation about. My Westy is a Wolfsburg, so I think that means just a few options, such as the tach, A/C and maybe a few other minor things. Good point though! Good to clear that up before we got too much farther! I will be able to take a look tonight, I believe, and make a determination on what that is for. Your post write ups were very good and informative, so I think I got that all straight, just this tach is got me twisted up. Thanks again for raising the question, and the other helpful information.
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Reck
Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2015
Posts: 73
Location: Santa Fe, NM
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond |
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| Franagon wrote: |
| I may be too late to this, but you should be able to keep your cam sprockets where they are. I gave someone else the timing instructions I somehow got that were out of a Ford manual. When I found those, I had someone else in the Focus forums state a clever way to change the belt. Basically, they marked the belt with corresponding marks on both cam sprockets and crank sprocket. Then they removed the old belt, transferred the marks to the new belt and reinstalled in the same position as the old one was. Of course you need to check to make sure everything lands right, but that should be a good starting point. I thought for sure I would mess up a cam or something trying to get that cam bolt off. I think it is a T60 Torx bit as well, which I did not have handy. I am glad mine worked out (well, I haven't started it yet) without unbolting the cam sprockets. I turned mine about 10 or more revolutions and it was dead on every 2, so I considered that good. Good luck! Hope this helps. |
No, not too late, thank you! I'll give this a try. To be clear: with this approach, you are only loosening the tensioner, not the cam sprockets and not the crank sprocket either? Since I've just now made sure the cams are timed to the crank, we're just slipping in a new belt and hoping the belt teeth engage correctly?
I'll then test with the timing bar and if it doesn't test right I'll use heat on the cam sprocket bolts and do the whole thing over.
Thanks again. |
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Franagon
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2009
Posts: 227
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:22 am Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond |
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Yep, that is pretty much it. With the new belt marked along with the cam and crank sprockets, you can let everything move plenty enough to 'walk' the belt on. Engage your tensioner and give the engine some rotations, check with bar and crank locator pin you insert in the side of the engine block. Good luck! It is kind of daunting sometimes, but you have been through the hardest part with loosening and tightening the cam sprockets. Even if you have to do that again, you know how to. Hope it ends up being timed right for you!
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Franagon
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2009
Posts: 227
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond |
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Hello all!
I was wondering about any information for the throttle cable run. I feel I am hitting a dead end at the frame cross member at the rear of the fuel tank. It seems as if I will have to drop my tank a bit to get the routing through there. I don't see anywhere else it will go or it will be too short and below a bunch of stuff, which is not great. I searched RG5 and RG6, but did not see anything. Thanks for the help, have a great weekend, hope to try to start mine this weekend if I can get over a few humps first.
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mpl
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2015
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond |
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| Franagon wrote: |
Hello all!
I was wondering about any information for the throttle cable run. I feel I am hitting a dead end at the frame cross member at the rear of the fuel tank. It seems as if I will have to drop my tank a bit to get the routing through there. I don't see anywhere else it will go or it will be too short and below a bunch of stuff, which is not great. I searched RG5 and RG6, but did not see anything. Thanks for the help, have a great weekend, hope to try to start mine this weekend if I can get over a few humps first. |
Hi Franagon, this is one area where the Bostig manual was particularly confusing. Our '84 2WDs don't have the hole along the driver's side frame rail that the documentation expects. I ran into the exact same roadblock as you, in the same exact spot. I even tried fishing a line from the front to the rear of the van along the frame rail... no dice. When I saw some photos of others' setups on newer vans, I realized that we don't have the same hole in that position.
I ended up routing the throttle cable up the center of the van, above the fuel tank. It's exactly what the Bostig manual says NOT to do, but it was the only way I could get it to work with clean routing. At the front of the gas tank, be very careful when routing the throttle cable toward the pedal so as to remain clear of the steering linkage. There will be enough cable this way, even though the manual says otherwise... 
Hope that helps! |
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JudoJeff
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2013
Posts: 1179
Location: Near Springfield, MA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:09 am Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond |
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Franogon,
I routed my speedometer cable just like mpl, over the gas tank. Only way I could make it work. No problems.
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________________________________________
1989 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Burned up on 7/31/16.
1987 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig & Rebuilt, sold
1986 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig Sold May 10, 2021
1999 Ford GTRV Westfalia camper (30% bigger Westy layout) |
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Franagon
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2009
Posts: 227
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond |
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Thanks guys! I appreciate that! I was pretty defeated when I was thinking I was going to have to drop the tank. I had it buttoned up well from ss coolant lines and new heater hoses running through there. Thanks so much! I DO appreciate that. Seems like the kit is pretty straightforward if you have an 86+. I have found numerous items that just weren't there on the 84. Thanks once more guys, that saved me some sweating underneath my van!
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Reck
Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2015
Posts: 73
Location: Santa Fe, NM
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond |
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| Franagon wrote: |
| I may be too late to this, but you should be able to keep your cam sprockets where they are. I gave someone else the timing instructions I somehow got that were out of a Ford manual. When I found those, I had someone else in the Focus forums state a clever way to change the belt. Basically, they marked the belt with corresponding marks on both cam sprockets and crank sprocket. Then they removed the old belt, transferred the marks to the new belt and reinstalled in the same position as the old one was. Of course you need to check to make sure everything lands right, but that should be a good starting point. I thought for sure I would mess up a cam or something trying to get that cam bolt off. I think it is a T60 Torx bit as well, which I did not have handy. I am glad mine worked out (well, I haven't started it yet) without unbolting the cam sprockets. I turned mine about 10 or more revolutions and it was dead on every 2, so I considered that good. Good luck! Hope this helps. |
I just did this and it seems to have worked fine (but I'm still weeks away from starting mine as well). As I said before, I'm doing this backwards. I timed my cams per the Bostig manual and thread locked the bolts, but should have done that at the same time as replacing the belt. So your advice sounded good.
This job is a bit of a struggle. With the belt off, the cams want to move with the spring compression. I could have used the timing bar I guess, but I used lock wrenches to hold them in place while I lined everything else up. Never having done this, it took a while for me to figure out how to take all the adjustment out of the new tensioner. You have to run the Allen wrench adjustment all the way back, but that doesn't give enough slack to get the belt on. I then dialed the spring back and held it in place with a needle-nose lock wrench (you really need about five hands). With all that held in place plus the crank stationary in gear, I could line up the marked teeth with the marked cogs and force the belt on.
With all that struggle, I wasn't sure what the results would be. I found tdc on piston 1, put the crank pin in place and tried the bar in the slots. It fit just like I'd left it. Which is remarkable since I couldn't get a .004 feeler gauge in that slot along with the bar when it's right. Thanks again. |
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Franagon
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Joined: January 13, 2009
Posts: 227
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond |
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Hey Reck, That all sounds promising! I just had my first start this past Thursday. Started right up! I was not expecting it! I still am trying to figure out how to data log and get all the water in the system (without air). I haven't had the time to spend with it, but I should get some extra days off soon to muddle through the final steps of the process. I am getting excited to drive it and get my garage cleaned out and back in order! I may be just slightly ahead of you, and should be able to answer questions as they come up. None of it is really hard, just some things I have never done before. Good luck moving forward!
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