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Vito85 Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 105 Location: tx
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:05 am Post subject: The Subaru dream |
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good morning fellas
I have a kit car on a type 1 1970 irs vw chassis
my goal is to swap the engine for a subaru, ( more power and A/C )
so.... I think that I will need
subaru engine about 1,500
kennedy adapter about 600
new clutch ( no issue on the future ) about 300 ?
ECU aftermarket ( will be easier ) about 1,000
radiatior about 200 ?
fan (s) about 200 ?
hoses and copper lines about 200--300 ??
A/C ( condeser + radiatior ) about 500 ??
I think that will be about 4,500 to a 5,000 usd project ( labor is free by me )
what else I will need ?
any experience or issues ???
I really appreciate all your feedback
God bless |
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didget69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004 Posts: 4927 Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Use stock ECM & modify harness - don't use copper for cooling lines.
http://www.enginewiring.com/services.htm
bnc _________________ I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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jspbtown Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5157
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Well I have no idea on your prices so I can't help you there.
For the AC you will need a structure in the kit car to hold it, as well as a fan, a way to direct the air, and some method of metering the amount of pure cold air you are introducing. I think the room issue will be significant.
Is your tranny up to par to handle the increased power? What about your brakes? Can they stop everything?
How about clearance for the motor? Any body work / paint needed?
How about a location for the radiator? Depending on the kit you have there is often little room for one. |
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Wolfgangdieter Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2008 Posts: 1958 Location: FL Panhandle
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:41 am Post subject: |
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A friend did an MGTD replica retrofit. He used aluminized steel exhaust pipe for the cooling system. He had to add many air bleed valves at high point in the cooling pipes to get excess air out of cooling system. He also had to get a modified shorter oil pan. Don't for get cost for a modified exhaust using the stock catalytic converters. He said his total cost was $6k which included replacing the cylinder head gaskets on 22EJ. _________________ CMC '57 Porsche Speedster Replica and Dolphin boat tailed full pan VW MOD-T Street Buggy |
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IowaRedManx Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2015 Posts: 45 Location: Downstate Illinois
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:48 am Post subject: |
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Vito,
I think you will be close on the $$$, if you double what you think it will cost. |
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streetbuggy8804 Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2009 Posts: 652 Location: Placentia,ca
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Plan for more money than that. There are a ton of little expenses that you run into. I speak from experience. Out front motor sports sells an adapter closer to $400 and it is always available. When I did mine Kennedy did not have stock and they said it would be about 3 months before they had one in stock.
Regardless of what people say about the stock Ecu, you will save some much in time and headache going with a standalone. I bought mine and could have had my son plug it all in it was so easy.
Read on the shop talk forum or even the Facebook page ( subarupoweredvw's) and people that use the stock Ecu are constantly asking for help with error codes.
Couple things your forgetting:
Shortened oil pan
Started to turn higher Torque motor.
Fittings and plugs for intake manifold ( unused ports, map sensor)
Water temp gauge
Fuel tank or modification for return
Fuel pump and filters
I'm sure there are many more that I forgot
All in all it is well worth it. I'm currently working on number 2. Go for it!! |
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Vito85 Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 105 Location: tx
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:53 am Post subject: |
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IowaRedManx wrote: |
Vito,
I think you will be close on the $$$, if you double what you think it will cost. |
Double ?? 10K ???? WOW !!! that is a lot
I have a Kelmark GT, I think there is enough space for the engine and on the trunk for the A/C
I really do not have idea how to set up the A/C, I know there is a fan, radiator and condeser + the compresor........ I think once everything os hook up.... .still need to vaccum the air inside right ???
but please if you do not mind , explain me how to add the A/C
Thank you
here is an example ( same car but not mine )
vw
trunk
subaru |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20379 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:58 am Post subject: |
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For ECU for project I would go with something like Megasquirt that way you do not have to deal with rebuilding subie harness and re-flashing subie ECU... You can just make necessary harness for ECU to already existing subie injectors and sensors and plug in laptop to dial in parameters for the EFI and Ignition...
Figure on doubling your budget numbers before project is complete....
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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jspbtown Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5157
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:35 am Post subject: |
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$10k+ in parts for a car that might be worth $7500 when finished would be a tough pill to swallow for me..... |
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didget69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004 Posts: 4927 Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Add in additional $$$ for tuning time on the standalone ECU.
bnc _________________ I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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weasel_ugs Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2012 Posts: 721 Location: Prescott Valley,Az.
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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jspbtown wrote: |
$10k+ in parts for a car that might be worth $7500 when finished would be a tough pill to swallow for me..... |
You never get out what you put into a project.
There is also Subaru gears for more options |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16758 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:43 am Post subject: |
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Cruise through this - This kid is doing is low buck, but has amazing talent.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5...p;start=20
Go to Shoptalk Forums - lots of stuff on converions. Unless you are beating it, it seems that the stock transaxle will work fine. Joel on here has done a few and there are lots of good tips and help out there.
I am doing one on a 66 bug - should be starting on it later this year. Already have a donor car (slightly wrecked 97 Imprezza for $500). Did go for a beefy transaxle though - and you should use a 3.88 ring an pinion.... This is where you can get into some money if yours isnt.
I have a realistic budget of $4000 above what I already have spent for this project and its been done for a lot less and a lot more. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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Letterman7 Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2004 Posts: 3198 Location: Downingtown, PA
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:43 am Post subject: |
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Ok, have to ask: why no copper for cooling lines? I understand if they are stressed in spots (fatigue related failure), but if properly supported there shouldn't be any issues? |
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jspbtown Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5157
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:53 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
You never get out what you put into a project. |
Not true. I made money on my Kelmark, my Speedster, my Sterling, and my 3 buggies.
The only one I broke even on was my Avenger....because I invested more than the market would support. |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Letterman7 wrote: |
Ok, have to ask: why no copper for cooling lines? I understand if they are stressed in spots (fatigue related failure), but if properly supported there shouldn't be any issues? |
Have you priced copper lately???
You would be better off using aluminum tubing... _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20379 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Mount radiator in back and just use rubber....
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Vito,
What size of Subaru engine are you plan on using?
The 2.2L engine seems to be the most common swap. If you have a timing belt problem (breaking) the valve do not get bent like in a 2.5L
As has been said the Shop Talk Forums in the Conversion Perversion section has much more information then here.
I see in the one picture you posted the radiator is in the very back. This will work and be simple as long as you can get enough air flow to it.
I am using Outfront adapter and flywheel and their EMS computer set up.
I have a JDM engine that came with the electrical harness cut off where it would go to the chassis. _________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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Letterman7 Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2004 Posts: 3198 Location: Downingtown, PA
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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clonebug wrote: |
Letterman7 wrote: |
Ok, have to ask: why no copper for cooling lines? I understand if they are stressed in spots (fatigue related failure), but if properly supported there shouldn't be any issues? |
Have you priced copper lately???
You would be better off using aluminum tubing... |
Well.. my 10 year stalled project has straight run copper pipe, no bends, from radiator to engine. Hose connections at either end. Well, not entirely true now that I think about it. I do have a riser at the engine end to put the pipe closer to the thermostat housing. Still, fastened securely. |
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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I am using 1-1/2in .035" wall aluminum tubing on mine. I also bought a inside bead roller from Earl's plumbing to roll a bead at end of tubing to keep hoses from slipping off.
Also using silicone hoses with T-bolt clamps from www.frozenboost.com for cooling system. _________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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weasel_ugs Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2012 Posts: 721 Location: Prescott Valley,Az.
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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jspbtown wrote: |
Quote: |
You never get out what you put into a project. |
Not true. I made money on my Kelmark, my Speedster, my Sterling, and my 3 buggies.
The only one I broke even on was my Avenger....because I invested more than the market would support. |
Including labor? |
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