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az_twistedfaith Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2015 Posts: 29 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:44 am Post subject: Noob as well - 65 Coupe |
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Hi All,
I have been lurking for some time and drooling over some of the great cars here and the great information.
I have been a fan of Ghias since the '70s but life got in the way...family and more but now that the kids are grown I am taking on a project to occupy my empty time.
In May I picked up a '65 Ghia in sore need of some work to include body work, new paint and interiors yet, for the most part, the car is sound and in decent shape excepting some of the rust damage. As I strip parts of the car down to evaluate the rust damage, it is apparent that the previous owner attempted some repairs but not a good job. The engine runs well and is a '74 dual relief 1600 cc.
The first step was to check out some of the rust that was showing up in the cracks in the paint. Fortunately the rust damage was minimal but WHO paints on top of rusty spots?
Yesterday, Aug 8th, began stripping the interior with the idea of having all of the interior and exterior media blasted. On removing the passenger seat I was surprised to see the extent of the previous damage and where the previous owner cut out a section of the floor pan and simply laid particle board over this huge hole. Hmm.
I will post more pics as the project progresses. |
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az_twistedfaith Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2015 Posts: 29 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:40 pm Post subject: project |
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The Ghia is just about ready for the media blasting. On pulling off the faux fiberglass panel I found the intact instrument panel is pretty decent shape with some minor rusting. Last thing is to get the windshield and back window removed and some minor work of cleaning up the old floor carpet pads.
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thruhiker74 Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2014 Posts: 118 Location: Tucson
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Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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From another AZ owner of a 60's Coupe, welcome. That is a rusted out floor pan alright!
Good luck with the car. Black might be a tough color to deal with up there in Phoenix! |
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az_twistedfaith Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2015 Posts: 29 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the welcome and an Arizona guy as well.
Yep, the floor pan on the passenger side is pretty well rusted and I am debating whether to replace the whole pan or patch/ weld in a new pan.
Agreed...the color black is not my choice of color. Just too flipping hot here for black. The car came this way and the paint job could have been better. The original color is an Ivory color as evident when the pain is sanded down. |
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c21darrel Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009 Posts: 8211 Location: San Dimas
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Rome Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004 Posts: 9651 Location: Pearl River, NY
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Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:52 am Post subject: |
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Great that you plan to rescue the Ghia. Yikes- that's alot of floor rust! If you replace the entire pan, would you consider switching to an IRS pan, or stay with a '65-era? Just keep the registration inspection in mind. If that is the situation in AZ, installing new pans on the existing chassis would be the better idea.
You'll need that welder for the rocker rust also, and the spot in the lower rear section behind the rear wheel. My '64 Ghia Cabrio had rust there when I bought it in '83.
As to your final color, it may be a long way off, but refer to the combinations here- http://www.karmann-ghia-archiv.de/farbarchivtyp14coupeaussenfarben.html
Even though they represent European-market colors and two-tone roofs which were not all offered in the USA, you have some interesting possibilities. Keep a gloss black body and paint the roof white. Return to the original Ancona White and add smoke grey roof (rauch grau), a combination which I think I've never seen in an actual car or in photos. |
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az_twistedfaith Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2015 Posts: 29 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:40 am Post subject: |
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Darrell and Rome.
Great observation. Hussy indeed...she has been around the block a few times. LOL Yep...this Ghia has a bit more rust than I anticipated..as usual. I will definitely need to break out the welder. I did not know about the registration aspect. Does this apply if the floor pan is replaced?
As far as I can tell, and confirmed by a local body man, the original color of the body was Ivory and at some point painted over with red then, I assume when rust started showing, was sprayed with black so there are 4 layers of paint and primer. For some weird reason, the interior by the foot well has been painted blue underneath the shoddy spray of black. Hmm?
The nose has definitely been reworked and I will not know the whole story until the car gets media blasted. As to the final color I choose to paint this, the two tone sounds intriguing. Thanks for the link to the color schemes by year.
Can anyone point me out to a site for instructions on removing the windshield and back windows? All of the windshield guys I have spoken with are reluctant to work with the window and removal due to the car age. Perhaps a classic specialist?
Thanks for the encouragement as this has been a new journey for me. And knowing each sq inch of the car has awaken all the more respect for this car and the restorations that others have done here. |
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KGCoupe Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005 Posts: 3580 Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:41 am Post subject: |
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az_twistedfaith wrote: |
Darrell and Rome.
Great observation. Hussy indeed...she has been around the block a few times. LOL Yep...this Ghia has a bit more rust than I anticipated..as usual. I will definitely need to break out the welder. I did not know about the registration aspect. Does this apply if the floor pan is replaced?
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Has anyone retoring a Ghia ever said "This Ghia has a bit less rust than I anticipated"?
I believe you would only run into possible registration issues if you decide to replace the entire floor pan with one from a different Ghia.
If you simply replace the rusted pan halves in your current floor pan, then you'll have no registration issues to worry about.
az_twistedfaith wrote: |
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Can anyone point me out to a site for instructions on removing the windshield and back windows? All of the windshield guys I have spoken with are reluctant to work with the window and removal due to the car age. Perhaps a classic specialist?
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Under the Technical tab here on The Samba, you can find an invaluable resource called 1960 VW Karmann Ghia Shop Manual - Body Section.
Much of the information in that manual is applicable to Ghias of any vintage, and I suspect this would include the sections on Windshield Removal and Installation and Rear Window Removal and Installation which can be found from page A-63 11 through A-63 13. |
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CiderGuy Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2013 Posts: 1351 Location: Bucks County, Pa
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Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:46 am Post subject: |
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KGCoupe wrote: |
az_twistedfaith wrote: |
Darrell and Rome.
Great observation. Hussy indeed...she has been around the block a few times. LOL Yep...this Ghia has a bit more rust than I anticipated..as usual. I will definitely need to break out the welder. I did not know about the registration aspect. Does this apply if the floor pan is replaced?
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Has anyone retoring a Ghia ever said "This Ghia has a bit less rust than I anticipated"?
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Under the Technical tab here on The Samba, you can find an invaluable resource called 1960 VW Karmann Ghia Shop Manual - Body Section.
Much of the information in that manual is applicable to Ghias of any vintage, and I suspect this would include the sections on Windshield Removal and Installation and Rear Window Removal and Installation which can be found from page A-63 11 through A-63 13.[/quote]
I sent this PDF file to a local minuteman press and had it printed and bound into a book for around $10.00. I've found it very handy. _________________ ----------------------
Cars Currently Owned:
1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1973 Karmann Ghia Coupe - Project car for sale
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (Body off restoration)
Timing is everything |
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c21darrel Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009 Posts: 8211 Location: San Dimas
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az_twistedfaith Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2015 Posts: 29 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks to input from Darrell and a youtube video on window removal on a Beetle, I got the windows popped out, front and back. The seal was a bit crispy and in some spots appeared to have been glued down with "tar" so I ended up cutting the seals and pulling them out. Some rust under the seal as well. Hmm
The nose has definitely been worked on. Looking forward to seeing what has been done. Tape? Wow...
Does this mean that this one was manufactured in Germany then brought over here? Linage tags?
That Ghia shop manual is a fantastic addition to my repair manuals. Thanks!
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Rome Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004 Posts: 9651 Location: Pearl River, NY
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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That is the regular VW body tag. The chassis # 145... should match that on your tunnel beneath the rear seat cushion. All US-spec Ghias which were officially imported into the USA were built in Germany at the Karmann plant in the city of Osnabrueck, located about 2 hrs west of Wolfsburg.
Egads- what a patch job for the nose- they even closed up the oval-shaped hole for the dual horns and completely removed the bracket that holds the horns...
That original dash is really mangled. Although the two larger round holes (should be just over 2" diameter) directly outboard of the two large center ones (factory speedo and clock) look to be nearly evenly spaced. If you can find some VDO Series 1 gauges such as oil pressure and oil temperature, they would look great there. That's the style which is a close match to the small center opening (factory fuel gauge). Then you'd need to patch and weld the remaining holes and fix the radio opening overcuts. Here's a European Ghia dash, which has its ignition key not at the left of the instument panel like on US cars, but just in front of the shifter.
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az_twistedfaith Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2015 Posts: 29 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:23 am Post subject: |
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The instrument panel is a mess, agreed with the extra non-stock hole openings. The gauges that I have that were removed from the panel include VDO fuel gauge, oil pressure, tachometer and voltmeter. The non VDO gauge is the speedometer. I am on the prowl for a VDO stock clock to occupy the original big opening. The diagram helps considerably in getting back to the original configuration.. One thing I do need is an ignition switch as the previous owner removed it and had but a push button starter switch in the panel and a electr5ical kill switch reached through the grill of the rear engine hatch. Hardly ideal and makes the car a bit too easy to steal, thanks.
Fortunately a buddy has welding equip and a vintage VW interest and will help me with the floor pan, instrument panel, nose and rocker panel rust.
I am thinking to take the car into a shop that specializes in the use of blasting with plastic media and saying that it is much gentler than sandblasting and soda blasting. Any particular things I should be looking out for? |
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noexit Samba Member
Joined: September 18, 2006 Posts: 329 Location: Tacoma, WA
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Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:10 am Post subject: |
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az_twistedfaith wrote: |
I am thinking to take the car into a shop that specializes in the use of blasting with plastic media and saying that it is much gentler than sandblasting and soda blasting. Any particular things I should be looking out for? |
Soda is about as gentle as you can get, but probably not abrasive enough for rust. There are also many reports of paint failing on soda blasted parts. There are also probably as many people that say that if your paint failed, you didn't prep it right.
You're right that you probably don't want to use sand. Most media blasting places will have a variety of media to choose from. They can probably recommend what's best. _________________ Rusty '62 L360 seeblau, L289 blauweiß Type 1 Karmann Ghia |
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az_twistedfaith Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2015 Posts: 29 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:35 pm Post subject: good points |
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Thanks for tip on the soda. I will talk to the media blaster for the best option. There is a bit of paint and some rust to get through.
Ron |
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Loren Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2004 Posts: 1701
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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You might consider using paint remover on the exterior and remove as much paint as you can. This will give you a good idea of any body damage and will reveal any bondo. This will also give you a chance to remove the bondo with a propane torch and a putty knife so the blaster can do a better job. The more paint and bondo you remove the better and cheaper the blasting will be. You can also look into dustless blasters. They use glass with water to remove paint and rust. The water makes the blasting dustless and it also cools the glass so you don't get warped panels. I have seen many dustless blasters that have mobile units and can come to your house so you don't have to tow the Ghia. As with any blasting be sure to plug up any holes where you don't want blasting media and remove all glass and parts that you don't want damaged. As an aside, you might consider replacing the whole dash with a donor dash. If you drill out the spot welds at the factory seams they are not that hard to replace. Keep up the good work! |
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c21darrel Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009 Posts: 8211 Location: San Dimas
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az_twistedfaith Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2015 Posts: 29 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:23 am Post subject: |
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Great advice Loren and Darrell,
I had initially planned to sand down the whole exterior body but after about a quarter of the way I was developing a reaction to the paint dust despite all of my heavy duty PPE and respirator hence looked to have the car blasted of the rest of the paint.
I tried some paint stripper on a small section of the fender last night and must say that I am quite impressed. Much better results than the sanding and quicker too. I plan to spend some time checking out the nose and removing as much paint as possible and investigating the bondo. From all that you guys say, it sounds best to remove all of the old bondo. What are you using to refill the dings and small holes? Fresh bondo or?
Good point about bits of sand migrating out of the crevasses over time. The dustless blaster sounds good so I will look into that especially if they make house calls.
As to a donor dash, I initially removed a poor fitting fiberglass donor that was slapped over the top of the original and rusted dash. I want to see what I can do about this original dash...it obviously needs a bit of TLC.
All in all, I am inspired by the great work a number of you have done on your Ghias and doing the job right, not half ass measures. Thanks for the encouragement to get this job done right! |
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c21darrel Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009 Posts: 8211 Location: San Dimas
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az_twistedfaith Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2015 Posts: 29 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:43 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Darrell,
This makes perfect sense. May as well get a fresh start on everything.
Ron |
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