Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Noob as well - 65 Coupe
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Ghia Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
az_twistedfaith
Samba Member


Joined: June 14, 2015
Posts: 29
Location: Phoenix, AZ
az_twistedfaith is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:44 am    Post subject: Noob as well - 65 Coupe Reply with quote

Hi All,
I have been lurking for some time and drooling over some of the great cars here and the great information.
I have been a fan of Ghias since the '70s but life got in the way...family and more but now that the kids are grown I am taking on a project to occupy my empty time.
In May I picked up a '65 Ghia in sore need of some work to include body work, new paint and interiors yet, for the most part, the car is sound and in decent shape excepting some of the rust damage. As I strip parts of the car down to evaluate the rust damage, it is apparent that the previous owner attempted some repairs but not a good job. The engine runs well and is a '74 dual relief 1600 cc.
The first step was to check out some of the rust that was showing up in the cracks in the paint. Fortunately the rust damage was minimal but WHO paints on top of rusty spots?
Yesterday, Aug 8th, began stripping the interior with the idea of having all of the interior and exterior media blasted. On removing the passenger seat I was surprised to see the extent of the previous damage and where the previous owner cut out a section of the floor pan and simply laid particle board over this huge hole. Hmm.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I will post more pics as the project progresses.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
az_twistedfaith
Samba Member


Joined: June 14, 2015
Posts: 29
Location: Phoenix, AZ
az_twistedfaith is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:40 pm    Post subject: project Reply with quote

The Ghia is just about ready for the media blasting. On pulling off the faux fiberglass panel I found the intact instrument panel is pretty decent shape with some minor rusting. Last thing is to get the windshield and back window removed and some minor work of cleaning up the old floor carpet pads.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
thruhiker74
Samba Member


Joined: June 09, 2014
Posts: 118
Location: Tucson
thruhiker74 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From another AZ owner of a 60's Coupe, welcome. That is a rusted out floor pan alright!
Good luck with the car. Black might be a tough color to deal with up there in Phoenix!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
az_twistedfaith
Samba Member


Joined: June 14, 2015
Posts: 29
Location: Phoenix, AZ
az_twistedfaith is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the welcome and an Arizona guy as well.
Yep, the floor pan on the passenger side is pretty well rusted and I am debating whether to replace the whole pan or patch/ weld in a new pan.
Agreed...the color black is not my choice of color. Just too flipping hot here for black. The car came this way and the paint job could have been better. The original color is an Ivory color as evident when the pain is sanded down.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
c21darrel
Samba Member


Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8206
Location: San Dimas
c21darrel is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome and good luck. Very Happy
More pics!
looks like your nose may be "sculpted" and the little hussy has been around the block with a few painters too...red, blue, army green/brown. Smile Good the original dash is there still, time to break out the welder and some scrap metal.
_________________
GhiaBuild
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481184
1967 DC build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693583&highlight=67+dc
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Rome
Samba Member


Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9603
Location: Pearl River, NY
Rome is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great that you plan to rescue the Ghia. Yikes- that's alot of floor rust! If you replace the entire pan, would you consider switching to an IRS pan, or stay with a '65-era? Just keep the registration inspection in mind. If that is the situation in AZ, installing new pans on the existing chassis would be the better idea.

You'll need that welder for the rocker rust also, and the spot in the lower rear section behind the rear wheel. My '64 Ghia Cabrio had rust there when I bought it in '83.

As to your final color, it may be a long way off, but refer to the combinations here- http://www.karmann-ghia-archiv.de/farbarchivtyp14coupeaussenfarben.html

Even though they represent European-market colors and two-tone roofs which were not all offered in the USA, you have some interesting possibilities. Keep a gloss black body and paint the roof white. Return to the original Ancona White and add smoke grey roof (rauch grau), a combination which I think I've never seen in an actual car or in photos.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
az_twistedfaith
Samba Member


Joined: June 14, 2015
Posts: 29
Location: Phoenix, AZ
az_twistedfaith is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darrell and Rome.
Great observation. Hussy indeed...she has been around the block a few times. LOL Yep...this Ghia has a bit more rust than I anticipated..as usual. I will definitely need to break out the welder. I did not know about the registration aspect. Does this apply if the floor pan is replaced?
As far as I can tell, and confirmed by a local body man, the original color of the body was Ivory and at some point painted over with red then, I assume when rust started showing, was sprayed with black so there are 4 layers of paint and primer. For some weird reason, the interior by the foot well has been painted blue underneath the shoddy spray of black. Hmm?
The nose has definitely been reworked and I will not know the whole story until the car gets media blasted. As to the final color I choose to paint this, the two tone sounds intriguing. Thanks for the link to the color schemes by year.
Can anyone point me out to a site for instructions on removing the windshield and back windows? All of the windshield guys I have spoken with are reluctant to work with the window and removal due to the car age. Perhaps a classic specialist?
Thanks for the encouragement as this has been a new journey for me. And knowing each sq inch of the car has awaken all the more respect for this car and the restorations that others have done here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KGCoupe
Samba Member


Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
KGCoupe is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

az_twistedfaith wrote:
Darrell and Rome.
Great observation. Hussy indeed...she has been around the block a few times. LOL Yep...this Ghia has a bit more rust than I anticipated..as usual. I will definitely need to break out the welder. I did not know about the registration aspect. Does this apply if the floor pan is replaced?
...

Has anyone retoring a Ghia ever said "This Ghia has a bit less rust than I anticipated"? Very Happy

I believe you would only run into possible registration issues if you decide to replace the entire floor pan with one from a different Ghia.
If you simply replace the rusted pan halves in your current floor pan, then you'll have no registration issues to worry about.

az_twistedfaith wrote:

...
Can anyone point me out to a site for instructions on removing the windshield and back windows? All of the windshield guys I have spoken with are reluctant to work with the window and removal due to the car age. Perhaps a classic specialist?
...

Under the Technical tab here on The Samba, you can find an invaluable resource called 1960 VW Karmann Ghia Shop Manual - Body Section.
Much of the information in that manual is applicable to Ghias of any vintage, and I suspect this would include the sections on Windshield Removal and Installation and Rear Window Removal and Installation which can be found from page A-63 11 through A-63 13.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
CiderGuy
Samba Member


Joined: December 23, 2013
Posts: 1351
Location: Bucks County, Pa
CiderGuy is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KGCoupe wrote:
az_twistedfaith wrote:
Darrell and Rome.
Great observation. Hussy indeed...she has been around the block a few times. LOL Yep...this Ghia has a bit more rust than I anticipated..as usual. I will definitely need to break out the welder. I did not know about the registration aspect. Does this apply if the floor pan is replaced?
...

Has anyone retoring a Ghia ever said "This Ghia has a bit less rust than I anticipated"? Very Happy

...

Under the Technical tab here on The Samba, you can find an invaluable resource called 1960 VW Karmann Ghia Shop Manual - Body Section.
Much of the information in that manual is applicable to Ghias of any vintage, and I suspect this would include the sections on Windshield Removal and Installation and Rear Window Removal and Installation which can be found from page A-63 11 through A-63 13.[/quote]

I sent this PDF file to a local minuteman press and had it printed and bound into a book for around $10.00. I've found it very handy.
_________________
----------------------
Cars Currently Owned:

1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1973 Karmann Ghia Coupe - Project car for sale
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (Body off restoration)

Timing is everything
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
c21darrel
Samba Member


Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8206
Location: San Dimas
c21darrel is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as the windows... Dont over think it. It will be one of your easier chores Smile. Looks like Cal Look rubber. If it is still pliable you can probably just push them out. Push slowly all the way around. If rubber is hardened, take a blade and cut on the exterior side. Cut near the glass all the way around and then push them out. The "lay on your back and push with both feet" method has worked for many in the past. Shocked

Quote:
Can anyone point me out to a site for instructions


You will probably find more experience and help here than about anywhere else Idea
_________________
GhiaBuild
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481184
1967 DC build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693583&highlight=67+dc
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
az_twistedfaith
Samba Member


Joined: June 14, 2015
Posts: 29
Location: Phoenix, AZ
az_twistedfaith is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to input from Darrell and a youtube video on window removal on a Beetle, I got the windows popped out, front and back. The seal was a bit crispy and in some spots appeared to have been glued down with "tar" so I ended up cutting the seals and pulling them out. Some rust under the seal as well. Hmm

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The nose has definitely been worked on. Looking forward to seeing what has been done. Tape? Wow...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Does this mean that this one was manufactured in Germany then brought over here? Linage tags?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


That Ghia shop manual is a fantastic addition to my repair manuals. Thanks!
[/img]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Rome
Samba Member


Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9603
Location: Pearl River, NY
Rome is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is the regular VW body tag. The chassis # 145... should match that on your tunnel beneath the rear seat cushion. All US-spec Ghias which were officially imported into the USA were built in Germany at the Karmann plant in the city of Osnabrueck, located about 2 hrs west of Wolfsburg.

Egads- what a patch job for the nose- they even closed up the oval-shaped hole for the dual horns and completely removed the bracket that holds the horns...

That original dash is really mangled. Although the two larger round holes (should be just over 2" diameter) directly outboard of the two large center ones (factory speedo and clock) look to be nearly evenly spaced. If you can find some VDO Series 1 gauges such as oil pressure and oil temperature, they would look great there. That's the style which is a close match to the small center opening (factory fuel gauge). Then you'd need to patch and weld the remaining holes and fix the radio opening overcuts. Here's a European Ghia dash, which has its ignition key not at the left of the instument panel like on US cars, but just in front of the shifter.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
az_twistedfaith
Samba Member


Joined: June 14, 2015
Posts: 29
Location: Phoenix, AZ
az_twistedfaith is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The instrument panel is a mess, agreed with the extra non-stock hole openings. The gauges that I have that were removed from the panel include VDO fuel gauge, oil pressure, tachometer and voltmeter. The non VDO gauge is the speedometer. I am on the prowl for a VDO stock clock to occupy the original big opening. The diagram helps considerably in getting back to the original configuration.. One thing I do need is an ignition switch as the previous owner removed it and had but a push button starter switch in the panel and a electr5ical kill switch reached through the grill of the rear engine hatch. Hardly ideal and makes the car a bit too easy to steal, thanks.
Fortunately a buddy has welding equip and a vintage VW interest and will help me with the floor pan, instrument panel, nose and rocker panel rust.

I am thinking to take the car into a shop that specializes in the use of blasting with plastic media and saying that it is much gentler than sandblasting and soda blasting. Any particular things I should be looking out for?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
noexit
Samba Member


Joined: September 18, 2006
Posts: 329
Location: Tacoma, WA
noexit is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

az_twistedfaith wrote:
I am thinking to take the car into a shop that specializes in the use of blasting with plastic media and saying that it is much gentler than sandblasting and soda blasting. Any particular things I should be looking out for?


Soda is about as gentle as you can get, but probably not abrasive enough for rust. There are also many reports of paint failing on soda blasted parts. There are also probably as many people that say that if your paint failed, you didn't prep it right.

You're right that you probably don't want to use sand. Most media blasting places will have a variety of media to choose from. They can probably recommend what's best.
_________________
Rusty '62 L360 seeblau, L289 blauweiß Type 1 Karmann Ghia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
az_twistedfaith
Samba Member


Joined: June 14, 2015
Posts: 29
Location: Phoenix, AZ
az_twistedfaith is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:35 pm    Post subject: good points Reply with quote

Thanks for tip on the soda. I will talk to the media blaster for the best option. There is a bit of paint and some rust to get through.

Ron
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Loren
Samba Member


Joined: January 10, 2004
Posts: 1694

Loren is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might consider using paint remover on the exterior and remove as much paint as you can. This will give you a good idea of any body damage and will reveal any bondo. This will also give you a chance to remove the bondo with a propane torch and a putty knife so the blaster can do a better job. The more paint and bondo you remove the better and cheaper the blasting will be. You can also look into dustless blasters. They use glass with water to remove paint and rust. The water makes the blasting dustless and it also cools the glass so you don't get warped panels. I have seen many dustless blasters that have mobile units and can come to your house so you don't have to tow the Ghia. As with any blasting be sure to plug up any holes where you don't want blasting media and remove all glass and parts that you don't want damaged. As an aside, you might consider replacing the whole dash with a donor dash. If you drill out the spot welds at the factory seams they are not that hard to replace. Keep up the good work!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
c21darrel
Samba Member


Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8206
Location: San Dimas
c21darrel is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As usual...Excellent advice from Loren!!
I took off my doors, front and rear decklids and blasted them all myself in my side yard. It was a mess and a dirty job, I used sand. Blast/sweep/refill blast/sweep/refill...I had zero warping issues using the harbor freight 100# blasting kettle. I used the propane bondo removal technique Loren mentioned above before blasting. I didnt blast the body because I didnt want to deal with years of sand finding its way out of crevices. After your car is down to metal you are going to want to get it in a good epoxy primer, i used DP-40.
_________________
GhiaBuild
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481184
1967 DC build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693583&highlight=67+dc
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
az_twistedfaith
Samba Member


Joined: June 14, 2015
Posts: 29
Location: Phoenix, AZ
az_twistedfaith is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great advice Loren and Darrell,
I had initially planned to sand down the whole exterior body but after about a quarter of the way I was developing a reaction to the paint dust despite all of my heavy duty PPE and respirator hence looked to have the car blasted of the rest of the paint.
I tried some paint stripper on a small section of the fender last night and must say that I am quite impressed. Much better results than the sanding and quicker too. I plan to spend some time checking out the nose and removing as much paint as possible and investigating the bondo. From all that you guys say, it sounds best to remove all of the old bondo. What are you using to refill the dings and small holes? Fresh bondo or?
Good point about bits of sand migrating out of the crevasses over time. The dustless blaster sounds good so I will look into that especially if they make house calls.
As to a donor dash, I initially removed a poor fitting fiberglass donor that was slapped over the top of the original and rusted dash. I want to see what I can do about this original dash...it obviously needs a bit of TLC.
All in all, I am inspired by the great work a number of you have done on your Ghias and doing the job right, not half ass measures. Thanks for the encouragement to get this job done right!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
c21darrel
Samba Member


Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8206
Location: San Dimas
c21darrel is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
it sounds best to remove all of the old bondo. What are you using to refill the dings and small holes? Fresh bondo or?


My technique is to remove all old filler.
Remove any rust.
Work out as much of the dents as possible, hammer/dolly/slap/pull...
fresh filler
sand flush

I would probably try to repair your existing dash, looks like you have 5 or 6 2-3 inch holes and a few small ones to make and weld in patches.
_________________
GhiaBuild
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481184
1967 DC build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693583&highlight=67+dc
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
az_twistedfaith
Samba Member


Joined: June 14, 2015
Posts: 29
Location: Phoenix, AZ
az_twistedfaith is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Darrell,
This makes perfect sense. May as well get a fresh start on everything.

Ron
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Ghia All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.