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Sand Rail Resurrection Project
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Icy
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

I was order fuel line from JBugs. It says it was made in Germany. Is that what you're talking about?
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

Might be good. Might not be. If it's the same quality as the window scraper seals I got from them that wouldn't fit any year of Bug from 1958 through 1974 that I had in my yard at the time, but the sales guy told me I had ordered the wrong year model...Couldn't have been '58, '59, '61, '62, '63, '64,'65, '67, '71, '72, or '74...

Well, I don't trust J-Bugs.

Although I didn't buy "German" fuel hose from them.
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Icy
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

I'm gonna heed your advice, and go with the low pressure fuel line and clamps. Better safe than crispy dune buggy.

Thanks for the advice on J-Bugs, Richard. I've already found a few local VW shops with good stuff! Kind of amazing how project cars can open the door to new people and places!

I got some white vinegar to finish treating the fuel tank. Once my fuel fitting, and a few other odds and ends are here, I think I might be ready to slam some gas into it and run it! The wiring loom is mostly ready, and I'm going to make some tail light brackets.

More updates soon!
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Icy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

Picture-less updates suck but it's still an update!

The buggy is now almost completely wired, save the lights and gauges. I found some trailer lights to use for brake and tail lights, and made some little brackets for mounting them.

For the last few days, I've been cleaning the rust out of the fuel tank. I got it clean enough, and hooked up the fitting on the bottom. I then connected my low-pressure fuel line to the fuel filter and tank, and the fuel looks pretty clean! I got a new filter, so that'll go on once it runs.

I did an oil change, and the oil looked pretty slimy, but not heavily used. A good amount of water came out, as well, but it looked like someone had recently been in there. The oil screen/filter plate looked clean, and I didn't see any rust or metal bits in the oil. I looked at Rob & Dave's Aircooled page for oil advice, and their chart was based off of cold start temp. The coldest it would ever start, realistically, would probably be 40F. So SAE 30 oil at 32F would be my choice. I know people run all sorts of weird oils, and this is basically lawn mower oil, but if that's what the doctor ordered...

I had some 5W30 around, so I put that in for starting it. Once it's running again and hot, I'll change to SAE 30.

And this brings me to tonight. I first tried to crank it- just one big click. Hmm. I took the breaker bar to the crankshaft, and the bolt spun, but not the pulley. So I tried the generator pulley, and it spun freely. I tried the crank again, and it moved this time. However, the pulley doesn't spin easily over the entire revolution.

So here's my potential issue, and some questions.

The crankshaft will spin all the way around, but at certain spots (which I will try to identify better tomorrow) there is increased resistance.

Furthermore, when cranking over the engine via starter, there seems to be a scraping sound coming from the bell housing. This occurs with the clutch in or out. It doesn't prevent rotation, and there are puffs of smoke coming out of the exhaust, so I'm hopeful! How could I have misaligned it that badly?

When I put the transaxle and engine together, I used a universal clutch alignment tool, to put the clutch on. My worry is that I somehow misaligned the clutch, and it scrapes against the wall of the trans case when trying to start. I'd have to wait and borrow an engine crane, but I can do that.

As a side note, there seems to be some sparking between the trans shift linkage, and pan. Also a little smoke comes out of the clutch cable tube when starting. My battery ground goes to a bolt on the pan. Probably nothing, right? Very Happy

So for the experts, what should I hear when cranking the engine over? I'm kind of surprised it didn't start anyway, so I'm likely not getting fuel/spark. Should my fuel pump be whirring or doing anything audible? Also, the throttle body should be all the way open when starting, right?

Thanks for the help, as always. I'll get those pics up, ASAP!

-Chris
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Q13931152
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

???? smoking clutch cable and sparks from the shifter linkage.....!!!!

Is your engine/ transmission rubber mounted? If so your clutch cable (and shifter linkage) is having to act as the ground path..... Not good. You will have to add a ground strap from the engine/ transmission to the frame in order to complete the ground path.
Usually the strap is attached to the transmission via one of the case bolts and the other end of it attaches to the frame to complete the ground path.
If your transmission is solid mounted then you've got something else going on causing a bad ground problem.


As for the scraping...no idea there, youre probably gonna have to open it up and see what's not right.
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

The post above is right about grounding the engine to the battery via the frame. A VW stock has a flat braided strap connected to one of the bolts (studs) connecting the front mount to the trans. The other end of the strap is connected to one of the studs the connect the mount to the frame. A battery cable with eye ends will work just as well as the stock flat braid.

The grinding noise may be a piece of hardware left inside the bellhousing. But it's more likely that the trans is from a 6 volt car, then the engine and its flywheel are probably from a 12 volt car, which has a larger outside diameter than a 6V flywheel. It usually takes some grinding to fit the 12V flywheel into the 6V bellhousing. It may have been ground out, but still has a little contact.
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Icy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

As promised, here are some pics! Words, too...


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As before mentioned: weird scraping, sparky sparky, cranking not starting.

The flywheel is definitely a 12V, with 130ish teeth, not 109. 12V starter, 12V generator, so my bet is 12V everything. My local VW shop (Old Volks Home), said that if it cranked, it was fine. He also said that if it scraped a little in the bell housing, to let it grind away to high spots. Shocked Okay by me, but I don't know why it would be rubbing if it was previously in the car, and running fine.

I pulled the engine, and it looks like the flywheel is a little tight inside the case, but no serious damage. Binding seems to be coming from the motor, as it was hard to turn off the transaxle. I figure it's a few rings of varnish or something in the cylinders, not sure about soaking with Seafoam or Mystery Oil? It makes complete revolutions, it's just not easy.

Thanks for the advice about the ground straps, guys. I'll run a bat cable from the trans case to the same ground as the battery. As far as the voltage regulator ground, run a 10ga to the same place?

When I crank it, there are little puffs of rust/dust/smoke out of the cylinders, and it smells like the starting fluid is burning. I'll likely pull the plugs and check for spark when I soak the pistons and install the ground straps.

On a side note, I can't get the front trans mount bolts to run down all the way, and I don't really want to slam 'em with the impact. Could I verify that they're the right size?

I have a friend coming to help check the ignition system, but I might give it a shot with a test light.

I ripped the master cylinder out today, and reinstalled the motor. Almost sounds like it wants to fire on the first crank, but then never does. Mess with it more tomorrow.

Here are a few things still to do:
- strip the exhaust system (peeling paint, but pretty stainless steel underneath)
- steering bearing replacement
- wire up tail lights
- custom shift knob
- axles and shocks
- install new fuel filter
- brakes
- windshield
- clean up wiring / hook up gauges
- seats/ harness
- gas tank straps

More progress coming soon, and thanks for the help and advice. This has really been a learning experience for me!
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heywebonya
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:49 am    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

Is your flywheel seated properly? It looks very far away from the case, maybe the angle of the picture.
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Icy
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:51 am    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

I believe it is... it meshes with the starter gear fine, and I've already determined that the binding seems to be coming from the engine.

Small update. Pulled the plugs and they look very different. I'll take a pic tomorrow, but I'm soaking the pistons in Marvel Mystery Oil. Got my test light, so when the oil's out, I'll crank it over and check the spark.

More updates soon!
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:23 am    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

Have you started to find axles yet? I am concerned that you might have a swing axle transmission in a IRS set up. I may be wrong, but it would be good to check earlier than later.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

I had thought maybe it had a swingaxle trans converted to IRS which could explain scraping noise from the flywheel scraping the bellhousing.

BUT...

The late style throwout bearing tells that the trans is originally a 12Volt. So the scraping noise must be piston rings against cylinders. I think you're gonna need to replace the pistons and cylinders.
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Icy
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:15 am    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

Thank you for the input, guys! Made small progress, but my pics don't want to upload, so I'll post them next.

As far as axles, I have some that came off the donor car, so I should be okay.

I soaked the cylinders in marvel mystery oil, and the engine turns over a lot easier. It also cranks more quietly, so I hope I don't need rings or pistons.

I have no spark, so I'm trying to figure that out. I went to check the points, but my distributor seems to be an updated magnet-type setup, with no moving parts. So my next thought is that the coil isn't charging. Should I test the coil output with a multimeter?

I took your advice, and got a bat cable to use for grounding the trans, and there seems to be no more arcing!

I'm trying to go through the ignition system, starting with the coil, and hopefully I'll find the issue.

Thanks for the help, as always!

-Chris
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

The first step would be to with a multimeter, but my money would be on the replacement Electronic Module. If it has been exposed to weather, it probably failed. When they fail, there is no spark at all. I made up a little homemade coil tester, that will make the coil spark. I can't find a picture of it, but if you like I'll take another one.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:14 am    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

Well, turns out that I just had a disconnected hot wire. The coil was getting no power, so no spark. I hooked it up, and the generator light, too. Tested a plug, and it sparks! I got so excited, that I threw the rest in without checking them.

Upon cranking it over, (with starting fluid) it blew a puff of smoke, a shot of flames, and a smoke ring. So I bolted the exhaust back on so that a backfire wouldn't make me deaf.

With the exhaust on, it spit flame, backfired, and puffed a lot of white smoke, but it only fires intermittently. I ordered new plugs, as the spark wasn't great, and I'll put them in regardless, to eliminate them as a problem.

My thinking is that either the plugs are weak (or dead), or the fuel system is clogged, and it's just running on the starting fluid. I have a new filter, and the gas going in is clean, but is there a way to check if the carb is getting fuel?

I'm not really familiar with them, but I guess there's a fuel "bowl" that needs to fill up. If I pull the carb, can I check it for fuel? Disconnect the fuel line to the carb, and see if it sprays out? Any input is appreciated!

Thanks guys! Update when the plugs get here.

-Chris
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

Going on the assumption that your engine hasn't ran for quite some time, it's probably a safe bet to say that the carburetor needs to be taken apart and cleaned up.

You can check the pump output by disconnecting the fuel line from it to the carb. It might take a while for things to start working, but if the pump is good and hooked up correctly it should start squirting out gas ( I'd put the fuel line into a bottle when doing this just to be safe and avoid a mess or fire hazard ).

If you're getting fuel already then yes, you can remove the top of the carb (it's just held on by screws ) and look inside and see if it's getting gas.

The carburetor you have is a solex 34 pict 3. Parts to rebuild them are readily available though, and they are almost stupid simple with very few parts to get wrong. The hardest thing is adjusting them afterwards, but even that's not all that hard so long as you follow the process.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

Thanks! I appreciate the input. I'll do that, and see what happens. I'll do some research on the carb- I'm part of the fuel-injected generation. Razz

As the distributor hasn't been moved, I assumed the timing is correct. Another thing to check!

The plugs are being shipped in. I'll let you know my progress.

On a side note, my exhaust system is covered in black paint that is peeling. I'm using paste-style paint stripper, but it's slow going. Would acetone harm what I believe is stainless?

Updates soon.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

i forgot to mention, but when you're testing the fuel pump the engine will have to be cranking. I know its kind of a no brainer thing for most folks who've been around these older cars forever, but if you're new to them and not used to these older systems it might not make sense . You see, with these old cars unlike an electric pump on a newer car they are mechanically engine driven and just turning the key on won't make it work.

You can also verify that your engine is building oil pressure during this test. If you have the light connected for the sending unit it shouid turn on when you first turn the key on, and should go out after a few seconds of cranking if everything is good.


Carbs are nothing to be afraid of, just take your time, and lots of pictures during the disassembly process and you'll be fne. The main things you will probably need are a screw driver, a couple different sized wrenches, some carburetor cleaner and if you have access to an air compressor that'll come in handy to blow out all of the little passages and jets.

Theres lots of documentation on here of carb overhauls to go by as well, and if you have questions there's lots of help here as well. The late model bug (68 and up I believe) section on here would be an excellent source of setup and adjustment information for that particular carburetor since that's where a lot of them were used.

I have a feeling that once you get things cleaned up and working like it should that it'll fire up for you.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

Your exhaust is almost CERTAINLY made of mild steel with chrome plating that got rusty and was painted over to cover the rust. Stainless steel exhausts on Bugs and VW buggies are EXTREMELY rare.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

Thank you for the follow-up! I don't have the oil light hooked up yet, but when I cranked the engine over, I could see fuel soaking the line that feeds the carburetor. Upon inspection, the rubber tube had split, which was hidden by the cloth wrap. However, the fact that the line was saturated and full of fuel makes me think that the fuel pump is good.

Thanks for the exhaust info, dusty. With a closer look, that seems to be the case. It looks terrible, but I didn't want a backfire to be directed towards me when I was cranking it!

I replaced the fuel filter because it was hard to tell if the fuel was rusty, or if there was just that much sediment in the filter. Looks like the fuel is very clean, as well as the tank.

I'll put some new line on, and try to start it again. I hope that fuel delivery is the issue, although new plugs might be necessary to make it run.

Here are some pics of the shift knob:

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And the plugs when I pulled them out:

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More progress to come, thanks for the help!
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Sand Rail Resurrection Project Reply with quote

Plugs don't look too bad. A cleanup with a spark plug grit blaster cleaner and re-gap (.028") and they should be fine to use.

Timing may still be off. And the carb almost certainly needs to be taken apart, dunked in carb cleaner and re-assembled. Modern gas with alcohol in it turns to crap in a REAL HURRY!

Check any other fuel lines in the whole car. Check the brake hoses too before you drive it.
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