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A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire
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IMPI
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a porsche speedster here in south africa that also suffered from burning completely. The owner had it stripped down placed in a huge oven and heat treated the whole body to regain tensile strength. Where there is a will there is a way
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Martin Southwell
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:38 pm    Post subject: Metal Heat Treatments Reply with quote

I was beginning to think that nobody had even considered the issue of metal degradation due to fire damage with this vehicle and so i'm pleased to see the above posting highlighting the issue.

As is well documented, in house, and similar fires, particularly with accelerants (eg Petrol in fuel tanks) involved, temperatures typically reach around 1,000C http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/11/101116122857.htm and as steel melts at around 1370C http://education.jlab.org/qa/meltingpoint_01.html the body on this car has not been far off melting point!

The steel will have been annealed (softened) by the heat, and reheating in itself will not necessarily restore former strength. Have a look at this: http://www.wikihow.com/Harden-Steel This information refers to 'fresh' steel, and not aged, age hardened steel bodywork, subjected to intense temperatures.

If such information is made available (which I doubt) it will be interesting to see what metal treatment(s), if any, this car undergoes in due course.
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splitjunkie
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but if this were any run of the mill split it would have already been scrapped. This car is too significant to scrap. This will be a museum car so probably won't see much if any time on the road.
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cory464
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

given the past history with the restoration teams this car will get the best restoration possible. I hope they are as generous with the details as they were with #6. I also anticipate that this car will be back on the road when done.
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My57Oval
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After the folks finish with that prototype Beetle, there are plenty more that need repairs too!

Actually, these cars, like most modern cars, are made out of tin foil compared to old 003 38. That's why there is nothing left to rebuild with these cars. Of course the heat must have been intense at this fire.

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fifty8
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Metal Heat Treatments Reply with quote

Martin Southwell wrote:
I was beginning to think that nobody had even considered the issue of metal degradation due to fire damage with this vehicle and so i'm pleased to see the above posting highlighting the issue.


The steel will have been annealed (softened) by the heat, and reheating in itself will not necessarily restore former strength. Have a look at this: http://www.wikihow.com/Harden-Steel This information refers to 'fresh' steel, and not aged, age hardened steel bodywork, subjected to intense temperatures.


One thing I've wondered, were the early engines made of magnesium? I know that would have burned considerably hotter if so and would have done much more damage and I didn't notice an engine picture above. Guessing the fire would have been contained before the magnesium would have ignited, if these were made of it??? Just curious.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: Metal Heat Treatments Reply with quote

fifty8 wrote:
Martin Southwell wrote:
I was beginning to think that nobody had even considered the issue of metal degradation due to fire damage with this vehicle and so i'm pleased to see the above posting highlighting the issue.


The steel will have been annealed (softened) by the heat, and reheating in itself will not necessarily restore former strength. Have a look at this: http://www.wikihow.com/Harden-Steel This information refers to 'fresh' steel, and not aged, age hardened steel bodywork, subjected to intense temperatures.


One thing I've wondered, were the early engines made of magnesium? I know that would have burned considerably hotter if so and would have done much more damage and I didn't notice an engine picture above. Guessing the fire would have been contained before the magnesium would have ignited, if these were made of it??? Just curious.


I think the early engines has more aluminum in them, so it might not have ignited like a normal engine case burning, but I'm sure it still melted into a slab. I had a building fire once and the engine case burned, transmission burned, brass burned, aluminum burned. The one thing I'll never forget is the smell, I feel bad for anyone attempting to restore this car.
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ash-jk
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been reading about this with great interest and after spending two evenings reading the 38/06 thread from beginning to end (yes it took that long!), I was wondering if there were any updates on this restoration?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ash-jk wrote:
I've been reading about this with great interest and after spending two evenings reading the 38/06 thread from beginning to end (yes it took that long!), I was wondering if there were any updates on this restoration?

The updates will come, just wait. Wink
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue Baron wrote:
Undis wrote:
This is a VW39 series, one of 14 built by Dr Porsche in 1939. This is the only survivor that almost did not survive because of the devastating fire which destroyed a sizable auto collection. The car was found in 1954 and ended up in the collection of the Raffay family in Hamburg. It was restored to the best ability of the day and shown at several Volkswagen events through the years. It was last seen in 1991 and was locked away in the private collection ever since.

Old photo of Raffay VW
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As a couriosity, my car is the 30. 56 year model, produced the day before # 1.000.000. The story says that these first 56-year models was used at Wolfburg to bring people around during the weekend. And the sellers then went home with their new 56. year model at the end of the weekend.
And mine went to Raffay's in Hamburg. So maybe it was around when the picture was taken Smile

Raffay was one of the two earliest dealers for Volkswagen.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one yet Question
Anxious
I see the lowering job has already been done, nice, that saves them some time Wink .
Things can only get better from here!
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Undis
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:58 am    Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire Reply with quote

Let the game begin!!!!!
Work is about to start on the resto of the ex Raffay, now Prototyp Museum car.

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fossil
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire Reply with quote

In the exhibition of the PROTOTYP museum there is a chassis labelled "VW 39". I wonder whether this chassis in the future will be part of a complete car. And I would love to learn something about the history of this chassis.

And on a post standing right adjacent to the wonderful VW 60 K 10 is a VW 38 - engine. On my last visit (last week) I noticed that parts were missing from that engine (cylinders, pistons, ...). Seems the work is really in progress.

I love that museum!
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doublecabmel
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire Reply with quote

I don't know which would be worst, rust or fire? Either way, This sure is an amazing story
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schwim
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire Reply with quote

I'm as giddy as I was at the start of VW38!
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Rich's 50
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire Reply with quote

Looking forward to it Cool
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sgmalt46
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire Reply with quote

Undis wrote:
Let the game begin!!!!!
Work is about to start on the resto of the ex Raffay, now Prototyp Museum car.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

i see that is christian driving. who is the other guy ? they are looking like partners in crime . Popcorn cant wait.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire Reply with quote

I see there has been progress on FB
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Undis
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:24 am    Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire Reply with quote

This just in.
The car will need lots of love and I'm sure it will get it!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:48 am    Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire Reply with quote

Another tough job been saved, keep the pics comin Undis!
generally speaking, not specifically, have they noticed much difference between the 39 and 38?
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